CR did a report on ebaY for their August Issue. Though it obviously did not have all the right questions to ask, it did have some interesting results.
Read ebaY Report
HALF (yes that is 50%) of buyers, said they had been "deceived" by the seller in some way, from not as described to outright fraud.
40% (which gives ebaY a positive feedback rating of 60 out of 100%) said ebaY's customer service in providing help was fair (neutral) or poor (negative). Well that DEFINITELY puts ebaY in the suspended category according to their own system - much lower than the lowest 5% on their site! And that was just from buyers - can you imagine what it would have been from sellers?
Tuesday, July 03, 2007
Wednesday, June 27, 2007
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ebaY Hypocrisy Reaches New High
In the aftermath of ebaY Live in Boston, ebaY has implemented a plan they feel will improve the "buyer experience" on ebaY. Whilst the general idea behind this plan may not be too faulty - though it IS in contradiction to ebaY's venue only policy in their user agreement - as always, ebaY's implementation is obscene.
What ebaY is doing is suspending some sellers who have complaints from buyers. ebaY is not looking at the complaints to see if they are legitimate, just giving the seller a 7 to 14 day suspension with the threat of permanent suspension if the seller does not go back and fix the problems, and refrain from having further problems. So, if the complaint is from a deadbeat buyer, who did not receive the item because they did not pay for it, this counts against the seller. If the complaint is from a thief who refuses to return the item but still wants a full refund, this counts against the seller. If the complaint is about a flaw in an item, even if the flaw was stated in the description, the complaint still counts against the seller. If the complaint is from a buyer, who tries to use the rating or complaint system to blackmail the seller into selling them something at a ridiculously low price, the complaint still counts against the seller. If the complaint is from a buyer, who wants the seller to do something illegal, such as falsify customs forms, the complaint counts against the seller. This is obscene, and should definitely be investigated as grounds for a class action lawsuit against ebaY, or at the least an investigation from State Attorney Generals.
ebaY says "eBay will consider the circumstances of an alleged policy violation and the user's trading record before taking action." and "If a complaint can't be proven with certainty, eBay may take no action." Both statements are lies, as ebaY does no investigating and ignores emails from sellers trying to explain the situation. ebaY also says, "Further, sellers are expected to perform in a manner that results in a consistently high level of buyer satisfaction. If a seller's interactions with the eBay Community create unacceptable levels of buyer dissatisfaction, that seller has violated this policy." As with many ebaY policies (written and unwritten) what is considered an acceptable level is kept a double super secret, because the knowledge might lead to seller abuse of the system (huh?). In truth the reason ebaY keeps such information secret is so that there is no one standard everyone has to follow, but ebaY can assign an arbitrary figure to suit their needs. As always, there is noone at ebaY the seller can contact to get such issues resolved. ebaY ignores emails, sends canned automated answers, and as usual, slams the door in the seller's face, even if ebaY is completely wrong in their action.
There are many many large sellers, whose accounts far exceed these arbitrary negative ratings, yet those accounts remain active and untouched by ebaY. The sellers we have been hearing from report that they are told they are in the "lowest 2% of buyer satisfaction" or have a 5% negative rating in the last X number of days (with X also varying to fit ebaY's needs).
Of course the ultimate hypocrisy lies in ebaY's satisfaction rating from their customers, the sellers. TAG wagers that ebaY's rating would be lucky to exceed 50% satisfaction, and definitely would not be close to 95% satisfactory. ebaY should shut itself down, based on its own standard, but then hypocrisy and lies are what ebaY, the company, is all about.
What ebaY is doing is suspending some sellers who have complaints from buyers. ebaY is not looking at the complaints to see if they are legitimate, just giving the seller a 7 to 14 day suspension with the threat of permanent suspension if the seller does not go back and fix the problems, and refrain from having further problems. So, if the complaint is from a deadbeat buyer, who did not receive the item because they did not pay for it, this counts against the seller. If the complaint is from a thief who refuses to return the item but still wants a full refund, this counts against the seller. If the complaint is about a flaw in an item, even if the flaw was stated in the description, the complaint still counts against the seller. If the complaint is from a buyer, who tries to use the rating or complaint system to blackmail the seller into selling them something at a ridiculously low price, the complaint still counts against the seller. If the complaint is from a buyer, who wants the seller to do something illegal, such as falsify customs forms, the complaint counts against the seller. This is obscene, and should definitely be investigated as grounds for a class action lawsuit against ebaY, or at the least an investigation from State Attorney Generals.
ebaY says "eBay will consider the circumstances of an alleged policy violation and the user's trading record before taking action." and "If a complaint can't be proven with certainty, eBay may take no action." Both statements are lies, as ebaY does no investigating and ignores emails from sellers trying to explain the situation. ebaY also says, "Further, sellers are expected to perform in a manner that results in a consistently high level of buyer satisfaction. If a seller's interactions with the eBay Community create unacceptable levels of buyer dissatisfaction, that seller has violated this policy." As with many ebaY policies (written and unwritten) what is considered an acceptable level is kept a double super secret, because the knowledge might lead to seller abuse of the system (huh?). In truth the reason ebaY keeps such information secret is so that there is no one standard everyone has to follow, but ebaY can assign an arbitrary figure to suit their needs. As always, there is noone at ebaY the seller can contact to get such issues resolved. ebaY ignores emails, sends canned automated answers, and as usual, slams the door in the seller's face, even if ebaY is completely wrong in their action.
There are many many large sellers, whose accounts far exceed these arbitrary negative ratings, yet those accounts remain active and untouched by ebaY. The sellers we have been hearing from report that they are told they are in the "lowest 2% of buyer satisfaction" or have a 5% negative rating in the last X number of days (with X also varying to fit ebaY's needs).
Of course the ultimate hypocrisy lies in ebaY's satisfaction rating from their customers, the sellers. TAG wagers that ebaY's rating would be lucky to exceed 50% satisfaction, and definitely would not be close to 95% satisfactory. ebaY should shut itself down, based on its own standard, but then hypocrisy and lies are what ebaY, the company, is all about.
Thursday, March 15, 2007
Is ebaY Holding the Smoking Gun?
The Preponderence of the Facts Show That ebaY is Holding The Smoking Gun
14 March 2007
It must be pretty obvious to our readers that TAG has been convinced for quite a while that ebaY is lying when they say Vladuz - and by extrapolation the Chinese hijacker/counterfeiters - has no access to ebaY other than through the phishing that takes place off ebaY. Only ebaY knows the whole truth, and all TAG, being on the outside can do, is use our 10 year intimate knowledge of ebaY and theorize on what we can observe. ebaY says that their site is secure and that no one has accessed their back end, as TAG has theorized. They told TAG that it is a FACT that no one has direct access to ebaY,
" We can hopefully address your 'concerns about the Vladuz problem' with the facts below."
" There is no way of gaining access to our internal networks without a securid token issued by IT."
"At no point did he have access to our corporate networks, tools, financial databases, or desktops, and at no point was any user information exposed."
"No one can access a user account without a password"
We already know, for a FACT (a real one not an ebaY corprobabblespeak one) that the following fact is a lie,
" Some messages were published on a community board on the eBay.de (Germany) web site by a person who gained access to a small number of employee email accounts."
since Vladuz posted on the boards today, using ebaY employee accounts, for the fourth time since he was shut out of that "small number of employee email accounts." Can there be so many gullible ebaY employees falling for phishing scams, and doing so whilst this massive attack against the ebaY site is going on?
What is most interesting about today's postings however, is that the account hijacks appear to have finally provided the smoking gun, with ebaY's fingerprints on it. Possibly irrefutable proof that ebaY is lying, that their site has been compromised, and that the back door is wide open.
Today, one of the accounts Vladuz, under the User ID Vladuz-Unleashed, used, is an account for an ebaY employee, kelbel@ebay.com
kelbel@ebay.com has what appears to be a test ebaY shop
Though kelbel@ebay.com has only one (1) feedback from another ebaY employee, kelbel has a power seller logo.
It is fairly obvious that kelbel@ebay.com is not a real person, but an account created by ebaY to run whatever various tests and experiments they feel they need. ebaY has lots of things they test, so this is just another one of them. BUT, if there is no real person named kelbel@ebay.com HOW did that non-existent person fall for a phishing scheme that allowed "his" information to be added to a phishing database? And if the account was hijacked without such access, then ebaY is lying about all of their alleged facts, and about phishing being the road to access to all these hijacked accounts, ebaY's and everyone else's.
At what point does ebaY's lies become criminal activity? At what point do they become liable for what is going on? They might already be violating the California law that requires them to contact California account holders when their ebaY accounts are compromised through access to ebaY's servers. What other laws are they breaking? Customer trust is eroding fast; will stockholder trust be far behind?
14 March 2007
It must be pretty obvious to our readers that TAG has been convinced for quite a while that ebaY is lying when they say Vladuz - and by extrapolation the Chinese hijacker/counterfeiters - has no access to ebaY other than through the phishing that takes place off ebaY. Only ebaY knows the whole truth, and all TAG, being on the outside can do, is use our 10 year intimate knowledge of ebaY and theorize on what we can observe. ebaY says that their site is secure and that no one has accessed their back end, as TAG has theorized. They told TAG that it is a FACT that no one has direct access to ebaY,
" We can hopefully address your 'concerns about the Vladuz problem' with the facts below."
" There is no way of gaining access to our internal networks without a securid token issued by IT."
"At no point did he have access to our corporate networks, tools, financial databases, or desktops, and at no point was any user information exposed."
"No one can access a user account without a password"
We already know, for a FACT (a real one not an ebaY corprobabblespeak one) that the following fact is a lie,
" Some messages were published on a community board on the eBay.de (Germany) web site by a person who gained access to a small number of employee email accounts."
since Vladuz posted on the boards today, using ebaY employee accounts, for the fourth time since he was shut out of that "small number of employee email accounts." Can there be so many gullible ebaY employees falling for phishing scams, and doing so whilst this massive attack against the ebaY site is going on?
What is most interesting about today's postings however, is that the account hijacks appear to have finally provided the smoking gun, with ebaY's fingerprints on it. Possibly irrefutable proof that ebaY is lying, that their site has been compromised, and that the back door is wide open.
Today, one of the accounts Vladuz, under the User ID Vladuz-Unleashed, used, is an account for an ebaY employee, kelbel@ebay.com
kelbel@ebay.com has what appears to be a test ebaY shop
Though kelbel@ebay.com has only one (1) feedback from another ebaY employee, kelbel has a power seller logo.
It is fairly obvious that kelbel@ebay.com is not a real person, but an account created by ebaY to run whatever various tests and experiments they feel they need. ebaY has lots of things they test, so this is just another one of them. BUT, if there is no real person named kelbel@ebay.com HOW did that non-existent person fall for a phishing scheme that allowed "his" information to be added to a phishing database? And if the account was hijacked without such access, then ebaY is lying about all of their alleged facts, and about phishing being the road to access to all these hijacked accounts, ebaY's and everyone else's.
At what point does ebaY's lies become criminal activity? At what point do they become liable for what is going on? They might already be violating the California law that requires them to contact California account holders when their ebaY accounts are compromised through access to ebaY's servers. What other laws are they breaking? Customer trust is eroding fast; will stockholder trust be far behind?
Tuesday, March 13, 2007
Whitman Fiddles as ebaY Burns
13 Mar 2007
Whilst Meg Whitman stood and played her fiddle at the Visa Security Summit, confidence in ebaY's security continued to burn to the ground. Adding fuel to the fire is Vladuz, defeating every ebaY effort to keep him from posting as an ebaY employee on ebaY's boards.
Meg Whitman blamed everyone but ebaY for the huge security hole that has made ebaY the plaything of Chinese hijackers, selling their counterfeit merchandise to the markets ebaY attempted, and failed, to deny them. Meg Whitman blamed Microsoft, Yahoo, the victims of the hijacks, Vladuz and probably The Auction Guild, for the flaws that are no doubt the fault of ebaY's bloated, patched, corrupt and insecure coding. She thinks every other company but ebaY, should spend their dollars, hire personnel, fix their security, and build tools for ebaY to use for free, so that ebaY users can't get scammed, and user confidence in ebaY continue to turn to ash. She does not mention, and definitely wont implement, even the most basic things that ebaY could do to assist themselves in curtailing their own problems (more on this later). Meg Whitman does not want to spend a penny, as that might adversely affect ebaY's ability to continually fool potential ebaY stock buyers that ebaY is a good investment, and a safe and fun place to sell and buy merchandise. There should be no misconception. ebaY is not safe and secure, has not been able to secure their own site, and potential investors should not waste their money on ebaY stock, until ebaY demonstrates the ability to secure the site.
ebaY keeps saying that Vladuz had a one time access to an employee account that contained old screenshots, and that ebaY shut his access down. Yet for the third time since he was allegedly shut down, Vladuz again posted to the ebaY Germany and US boards today, with an ebaY employee account.
A search of the ID yielded the following screenshots, showing the poster's profile and user ID history.
In and of itself, access to ebaY employee accounts is possibly not important. But the fact that ebaY can't secure even their own employee accounts is definitely indicative of more serious security flaws. These other security flaws are being demonstrated by Chinese counterfeiters listing upwards of 3 million items each and every day on ebaY, using fresh cherry picked accounts each time. The counterfeiters are also receiving payment through PayPal, and TAG wonders if ebaY continues to allow this, since this is the only money ebaY is earning on the transactions. Since the listings are on hijacked accounts, ebaY is not making anything in listing or final value fees, but PayPal takes its cut before the money is sent to the account holder.
Other indications of security flaws are the ability to override ebaY's listing parameters. Scammers and counterfeiters have been able to list items with titles longer than ebaY allows, add information to running legitimate listings, list items on NARU (no longer a registered user - closed or suspended accounts), list items on accounts that are only set up for buying, (buyer and seller accounts require different financial information) access accounts without having the password, and the ability to sell hundreds of items on accounts that don't meet the criteria for use of certain functions such as Buy It Now. In addition the listings appear to index in search immediately, and long before normal listings do. All these are indicators that the scammers and counterfeiters have a level of access and the ability to manipulate the ebaY system far beyond what they would have if they had only hijacked a regular users account via a stolen password using phishing. ebaY needs to explain how these things are happening, if all the blame is to fall on ebaY users.
This is a screenshot of an active listing on a NARU account. Unfortunately we did not get a screenshot of the sellers list of 205 items on this NARU account.
There are things ebaY could do right now to cut way back on these problems, without actually fixing their bloated, patched, corrupt and insecure kludge coding. These would only be stopgap measures until real fixes were put in place. Of course to do this, they would have to hire personnel and spend money, which at ebaY appears to be a crime of the first order, and a thing they wont do until their hand is forced.
1. Delete all accounts that have been inactive for a year. That is DELETE, as in remove totally from the database, not put into some accessible hole that the scammers can access. If they don't want to just delete inactive accounts, then send an email to the account holder asking the holder to go through their normal links to confirm they still want the account. Account holders should have to confirm unused accounts annually.
2. Require every account to be funded, either by cash, check or credit card. Even a minimal deposit of five or ten dollars for each account registered would cut down on the millions of superfluous accounts that are just sitting around waiting for the scammers to use them. Delete every account not funded (see1. for what delete means) This would also help cut down on some other problems, such as accounts registered for deadbeat bidders to use to wreak havoc on sellers they don't like or just or the fun of it.
3. Require a secure password consisting of letters, numbers and characters. This is such a basic security feature it amazes TAG that ebaY does not require it.
4. Require that sellers of items that are normally counterfeited be bonded. This is probably a good idea for all sellers who habitually sell high ticket items, including ebaY Motors. Reasonable limits could be set, so that anyone selling over X dollars a month of these items must be bonded.
5. Eliminate 1 day listing, and possibly 3 day listings. There is no reason for these to exist, and though Buy It Now and store listings amount to the same thing, they at least have some restrictions in place. Of course it appears the scammers have the ability to subvert all restrictions, but getting rid of all 1 day listings might filter some of the garbage out.
It would behoove Meg Whitman to implement these stop gap measure, expending her employee's energy on these measures as opposed to deleting postings and threads about the problems, suspending users who talk about the problems, lying about the extent of the security hole, and adding sites that publicize these issue, such as The Auction Guild and Falle-Internet.de, to the blacklists on sites such as AOL, Yahoo and the phishreport.net organization. And if ebaY actually plans to continue to be a marketplace, they need to hire some programmers and rebuild the entire program infrastructure from scratch, so that holes such as that exploited by the Vladuz's of the world are closed.
If you want to read more about these issues, and get the latest as it happens, keep your eye on these sites:
ebaY Motors Sucks
FireMeg
Falle-Internet
Articles at -
http://redtape.msnbc.com/2007/03/how_far_has_vla.html
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2100808,00.asp
http://www.eweek.com/slideshow/0,1206,a=202474,00.asp
Information for this article came from -
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6165628.html?tag=nl.e550
And from several TAGnotes subscribers and information providers who choose to remain anonymous, but whose efforts we appreciate immensely
Whilst Meg Whitman stood and played her fiddle at the Visa Security Summit, confidence in ebaY's security continued to burn to the ground. Adding fuel to the fire is Vladuz, defeating every ebaY effort to keep him from posting as an ebaY employee on ebaY's boards.
Meg Whitman blamed everyone but ebaY for the huge security hole that has made ebaY the plaything of Chinese hijackers, selling their counterfeit merchandise to the markets ebaY attempted, and failed, to deny them. Meg Whitman blamed Microsoft, Yahoo, the victims of the hijacks, Vladuz and probably The Auction Guild, for the flaws that are no doubt the fault of ebaY's bloated, patched, corrupt and insecure coding. She thinks every other company but ebaY, should spend their dollars, hire personnel, fix their security, and build tools for ebaY to use for free, so that ebaY users can't get scammed, and user confidence in ebaY continue to turn to ash. She does not mention, and definitely wont implement, even the most basic things that ebaY could do to assist themselves in curtailing their own problems (more on this later). Meg Whitman does not want to spend a penny, as that might adversely affect ebaY's ability to continually fool potential ebaY stock buyers that ebaY is a good investment, and a safe and fun place to sell and buy merchandise. There should be no misconception. ebaY is not safe and secure, has not been able to secure their own site, and potential investors should not waste their money on ebaY stock, until ebaY demonstrates the ability to secure the site.
ebaY keeps saying that Vladuz had a one time access to an employee account that contained old screenshots, and that ebaY shut his access down. Yet for the third time since he was allegedly shut down, Vladuz again posted to the ebaY Germany and US boards today, with an ebaY employee account.
A search of the ID yielded the following screenshots, showing the poster's profile and user ID history.
In and of itself, access to ebaY employee accounts is possibly not important. But the fact that ebaY can't secure even their own employee accounts is definitely indicative of more serious security flaws. These other security flaws are being demonstrated by Chinese counterfeiters listing upwards of 3 million items each and every day on ebaY, using fresh cherry picked accounts each time. The counterfeiters are also receiving payment through PayPal, and TAG wonders if ebaY continues to allow this, since this is the only money ebaY is earning on the transactions. Since the listings are on hijacked accounts, ebaY is not making anything in listing or final value fees, but PayPal takes its cut before the money is sent to the account holder.
Other indications of security flaws are the ability to override ebaY's listing parameters. Scammers and counterfeiters have been able to list items with titles longer than ebaY allows, add information to running legitimate listings, list items on NARU (no longer a registered user - closed or suspended accounts), list items on accounts that are only set up for buying, (buyer and seller accounts require different financial information) access accounts without having the password, and the ability to sell hundreds of items on accounts that don't meet the criteria for use of certain functions such as Buy It Now. In addition the listings appear to index in search immediately, and long before normal listings do. All these are indicators that the scammers and counterfeiters have a level of access and the ability to manipulate the ebaY system far beyond what they would have if they had only hijacked a regular users account via a stolen password using phishing. ebaY needs to explain how these things are happening, if all the blame is to fall on ebaY users.
This is a screenshot of an active listing on a NARU account. Unfortunately we did not get a screenshot of the sellers list of 205 items on this NARU account.
There are things ebaY could do right now to cut way back on these problems, without actually fixing their bloated, patched, corrupt and insecure kludge coding. These would only be stopgap measures until real fixes were put in place. Of course to do this, they would have to hire personnel and spend money, which at ebaY appears to be a crime of the first order, and a thing they wont do until their hand is forced.
1. Delete all accounts that have been inactive for a year. That is DELETE, as in remove totally from the database, not put into some accessible hole that the scammers can access. If they don't want to just delete inactive accounts, then send an email to the account holder asking the holder to go through their normal links to confirm they still want the account. Account holders should have to confirm unused accounts annually.
2. Require every account to be funded, either by cash, check or credit card. Even a minimal deposit of five or ten dollars for each account registered would cut down on the millions of superfluous accounts that are just sitting around waiting for the scammers to use them. Delete every account not funded (see1. for what delete means) This would also help cut down on some other problems, such as accounts registered for deadbeat bidders to use to wreak havoc on sellers they don't like or just or the fun of it.
3. Require a secure password consisting of letters, numbers and characters. This is such a basic security feature it amazes TAG that ebaY does not require it.
4. Require that sellers of items that are normally counterfeited be bonded. This is probably a good idea for all sellers who habitually sell high ticket items, including ebaY Motors. Reasonable limits could be set, so that anyone selling over X dollars a month of these items must be bonded.
5. Eliminate 1 day listing, and possibly 3 day listings. There is no reason for these to exist, and though Buy It Now and store listings amount to the same thing, they at least have some restrictions in place. Of course it appears the scammers have the ability to subvert all restrictions, but getting rid of all 1 day listings might filter some of the garbage out.
It would behoove Meg Whitman to implement these stop gap measure, expending her employee's energy on these measures as opposed to deleting postings and threads about the problems, suspending users who talk about the problems, lying about the extent of the security hole, and adding sites that publicize these issue, such as The Auction Guild and Falle-Internet.de, to the blacklists on sites such as AOL, Yahoo and the phishreport.net organization. And if ebaY actually plans to continue to be a marketplace, they need to hire some programmers and rebuild the entire program infrastructure from scratch, so that holes such as that exploited by the Vladuz's of the world are closed.
If you want to read more about these issues, and get the latest as it happens, keep your eye on these sites:
ebaY Motors Sucks
FireMeg
Falle-Internet
Articles at -
http://redtape.msnbc.com/2007/03/how_far_has_vla.html
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2100808,00.asp
http://www.eweek.com/slideshow/0,1206,a=202474,00.asp
Information for this article came from -
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6165628.html?tag=nl.e550
And from several TAGnotes subscribers and information providers who choose to remain anonymous, but whose efforts we appreciate immensely
Friday, February 23, 2007
ebaY Tries Intimidation
24 Feb 2007
For all of you that are following the Vladuz story, TAG has commented several times on how ebaY seems to be expending more energy on keeping the information hidden from the public, than on doing anything about the problem. Here is some proof that this is so.
Though the various Vladuz threads on ebaY US and ebaY UK are removed promptly, for a while, the Vladuz threads on the ebaY DE boards were allowed to remain. TAG referenced those threads in some of articles on the TAG website, and back in Jan, when Vladuz visited the TAG website, he/she was made aware of those ebaY DE threads, and went there for a visit. Vladuz spent some time posting on the ebaY DE boards, and when those threads started to attract lots of international attention, ebaY shut those threads down also. What ebaY also discovered is that there is a German website named Falle-Internet that is providing information about fraud, and scams online and in particular about ebaY DE. There are also several threads about Vladuz on the site.
On 19 Feb 07, TAG received an email from one of the folks who is a contributor to the Falle site, and included mail that the company that hosts their server received from ebaY. An excerpt from the correspondence follows:
From: snoyce@ebay.com
We have just learned that your service is being used to violate eBay Inc.'s trademarks and/or copyrights. Specifically, it appears that a xxxx user is hosting a page at 88.198.157.106 - http://www.falle-internet.de/de/html/pr_vlad.htm which uses our trademarks inappropriately.
While we believe that the above information gives your company more than a sufficient basis for disabling the page immediately, out of caution we note that your user's unauthorized reproduction of eBay's trademark and copyrighted materials violates federal law, and places an independent legal obligation on your company to remove the offending page(s) immediately upon receiving notice from eBay, the owner of the copyrighted materials. Accordingly, the information below serves as eBay's notice of infringement pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. Section 512 (c)(3)(A):
I, the undersigned, CERTIFY UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY that I am the agent authorized to act on behalf of the owner of certain intellectual property rights, said owner being named eBay Inc. I have a good faith belief that the website located at URL http://www.falle-internet.de/de/html/pr_vlad.htm has its copyright in each page of its website and associated source code.
Please act expeditiously to remove or disable access to the material or items claimed to be infringing.
We sincerely appreciate your immediate attention to this important matter. We would also appreciate if you would take steps to confirm the accuracy of any contact information that your user may have provided to you in establishing the account. Should you have any accurate information that could assist eBay and law enforcement in tracking this individual, we greatly appreciate your assistance, as we know that you do not condone the use of your services for such criminal purposes.
Finally, please be advised that we have referred this issue to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for their investigation. The F.B.I. has requested that we convey to you in this message their request that you preserve for 90 days all records relating to this web site, including all associated accounts, computer logs, files, IP addresses, telephone numbers, subscriber and user records, communications, and all programs and files on storage media in regard to all Internet connection information, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. ? 2703(f). While we do not act as an agent of the FBI in conveying this request, we do intend to fully cooperate with their investigation, and encourage you to do so as well.
-------------------
Well, anyone receiving such an email would be bound to feel threatened, at least until they looked a little closer. Fortunately the server host receiving this intimidating email did not overreact and take the site down, but instead contacted the Falle folks. The Falle folks did take down the referenced page, but only until they could get more information from ebaY as to exactly what ebaY was objecting. There was nothing on the site that should have caused a problem, and nothing that was not also on the TAG site and other sites such as ebaY Motors Sucks.
On closer inspection of ebaY's threats, the whole thing looks foolish and silly. To start with, the FBI has no jurisdiction in Germany. In addition, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. Section 512 (c)(3)(A) is a US code, not a German one. To our legally untrained eyes, it does not appear that ebaY has a legal leg to stand on, and TAG wonders if this letter would fall under intimidation and harassment by ebaY. What possible criminal activity Falle could have committed, remains a complete mystery to even a fervent imagination.
Another thing that happened to the Falle-Internet site, and also to the TAG site, is that both our sites are now showing up on various toolbars as fraudulent sites. The following image shows up if you go to the auctionguild.com site (and also the Falle-Internet site) and use the Opera browser and toolbar. It says, "This site has been found on Opera's blacklist of suspected fraud sites. Exchanging sensitive or confidential information with this site could put you at risk for identity theft and/or financial fraud."
Isn't it an interesting coincidence, that some mysterious organization has decided to report sites as being fraudulent that are publishing information that could have a negative impact on ebaY's stock price? Since the TAG site has been around since 1999, has never been designated as a fraudulent site before, asks for no sensitive information of any kind, and you don't even have to accept a cookie to use the site, how the folks at Opera can justify this warning, is beyond us. One assumes that they would need to get such a blacklist request from someone with influence, to blacklist a site without even checking the site in question.
We will try to contact Opera to see if they can get this reviewed and fixed, and would also greatly appreciate if any of you out there who use the Opera browser and toolbar, report to Opera that this fraudulent site designation is false and should be removed. Also, please check the auctionguild.com site the Falle-Internet.de site, and even the ebaymotorssucks.com site to see if they show up as fraudulent, using any other toolbars you might use, and let us know, and also let the toolbar site know that any fraud designation is false.
For all of you that are following the Vladuz story, TAG has commented several times on how ebaY seems to be expending more energy on keeping the information hidden from the public, than on doing anything about the problem. Here is some proof that this is so.
Though the various Vladuz threads on ebaY US and ebaY UK are removed promptly, for a while, the Vladuz threads on the ebaY DE boards were allowed to remain. TAG referenced those threads in some of articles on the TAG website, and back in Jan, when Vladuz visited the TAG website, he/she was made aware of those ebaY DE threads, and went there for a visit. Vladuz spent some time posting on the ebaY DE boards, and when those threads started to attract lots of international attention, ebaY shut those threads down also. What ebaY also discovered is that there is a German website named Falle-Internet that is providing information about fraud, and scams online and in particular about ebaY DE. There are also several threads about Vladuz on the site.
On 19 Feb 07, TAG received an email from one of the folks who is a contributor to the Falle site, and included mail that the company that hosts their server received from ebaY. An excerpt from the correspondence follows:
From: snoyce@ebay.com
We have just learned that your service is being used to violate eBay Inc.'s trademarks and/or copyrights. Specifically, it appears that a xxxx user is hosting a page at 88.198.157.106 - http://www.falle-internet.de/de/html/pr_vlad.htm
While we believe that the above information gives your company more than a sufficient basis for disabling the page immediately, out of caution we note that your user's unauthorized reproduction of eBay's trademark and copyrighted materials violates federal law, and places an independent legal obligation on your company to remove the offending page(s) immediately upon receiving notice from eBay, the owner of the copyrighted materials. Accordingly, the information below serves as eBay's notice of infringement pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. Section 512 (c)(3)(A):
I, the undersigned, CERTIFY UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY that I am the agent authorized to act on behalf of the owner of certain intellectual property rights, said owner being named eBay Inc. I have a good faith belief that the website located at URL http://www.falle-internet.de/de/html/pr_vlad.htm
Please act expeditiously to remove or disable access to the material or items claimed to be infringing.
We sincerely appreciate your immediate attention to this important matter. We would also appreciate if you would take steps to confirm the accuracy of any contact information that your user may have provided to you in establishing the account. Should you have any accurate information that could assist eBay and law enforcement in tracking this individual, we greatly appreciate your assistance, as we know that you do not condone the use of your services for such criminal purposes.
Finally, please be advised that we have referred this issue to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for their investigation. The F.B.I. has requested that we convey to you in this message their request that you preserve for 90 days all records relating to this web site, including all associated accounts, computer logs, files, IP addresses, telephone numbers, subscriber and user records, communications, and all programs and files on storage media in regard to all Internet connection information, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. ? 2703(f). While we do not act as an agent of the FBI in conveying this request, we do intend to fully cooperate with their investigation, and encourage you to do so as well.
-------------------
Well, anyone receiving such an email would be bound to feel threatened, at least until they looked a little closer. Fortunately the server host receiving this intimidating email did not overreact and take the site down, but instead contacted the Falle folks. The Falle folks did take down the referenced page, but only until they could get more information from ebaY as to exactly what ebaY was objecting. There was nothing on the site that should have caused a problem, and nothing that was not also on the TAG site and other sites such as ebaY Motors Sucks.
On closer inspection of ebaY's threats, the whole thing looks foolish and silly. To start with, the FBI has no jurisdiction in Germany. In addition, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. Section 512 (c)(3)(A) is a US code, not a German one. To our legally untrained eyes, it does not appear that ebaY has a legal leg to stand on, and TAG wonders if this letter would fall under intimidation and harassment by ebaY. What possible criminal activity Falle could have committed, remains a complete mystery to even a fervent imagination.
Another thing that happened to the Falle-Internet site, and also to the TAG site, is that both our sites are now showing up on various toolbars as fraudulent sites. The following image shows up if you go to the auctionguild.com site (and also the Falle-Internet site) and use the Opera browser and toolbar. It says, "This site has been found on Opera's blacklist of suspected fraud sites. Exchanging sensitive or confidential information with this site could put you at risk for identity theft and/or financial fraud."
Isn't it an interesting coincidence, that some mysterious organization has decided to report sites as being fraudulent that are publishing information that could have a negative impact on ebaY's stock price? Since the TAG site has been around since 1999, has never been designated as a fraudulent site before, asks for no sensitive information of any kind, and you don't even have to accept a cookie to use the site, how the folks at Opera can justify this warning, is beyond us. One assumes that they would need to get such a blacklist request from someone with influence, to blacklist a site without even checking the site in question.
We will try to contact Opera to see if they can get this reviewed and fixed, and would also greatly appreciate if any of you out there who use the Opera browser and toolbar, report to Opera that this fraudulent site designation is false and should be removed. Also, please check the auctionguild.com site the Falle-Internet.de site, and even the ebaymotorssucks.com site to see if they show up as fraudulent, using any other toolbars you might use, and let us know, and also let the toolbar site know that any fraud designation is false.
ebaY on Vladuz, Deny and Lie
23 Feb 2007
TAG has been deeply concerned over the completely open ebaY back end, which has allowed the hackers and the counterfeiters complete access to unlimited ebaY accounts and listings. All ebaY has done, so far as we can tell, is to disappear threads on their site discussing the subject, and attempt to intimidate and threaten websites that have recorded the incidents, and provided access to this information to the public.
On the first of February, TAG wrote to Rob Chesnut, Senior Vice President of Trust and Safety at ebaY, in a futile attempt to get some reassurance that ebaY was actually doing something to close this hole. We referenced the articles on the TAG website we have written on this subject and asked what we consider the most basic question:
If as ebaY claims, the Vladuz back door program does not exist, then HOW are the Chinese counterfeit sellers hijacking thousands of accounts and using those accounts to sell their merchandise and get their payment through PayPal, all without needing passwords on those accounts?
Unfortunately Rob did not see his way clear to respond - on or off the record - and instead shunted the email off to a new and inexperienced ebaY PR person. We can just imagine how the folks at ebaY were probably laughing in their coffee cups about sticking this ingénue with responding to bid bad TAG.
The email we received said:
I have to say we were rather disappointed that you didn't try and contact us prior to writing the piece as when we read your article we have noticed it contains many inaccuracies.
We can hopefully address your 'concerns about the Vladuz problem' with the facts below. Once you've had a look at these, it would be great if we can chat about whether you will amend your current article.
- Some messages were published on a community board on the eBay.de (Germany) web site by a person who gained access to a small number of employee email accounts.
- Our corporate email system operates on an entirely separate database and server system than those that store customer information.
- At no point did he have access to our corporate networks, tools, financial databases, or desktops, and at no point was any user information exposed.
There is no way of gaining access to our internal networks without a securid token issued by IT.
- By policy, our Customer Support Reps cannot store or include any personal data of any user in their email account.
- We take these incidents very seriously, and we are working closely with US and International authorities to investigate it further.
We responded with:
Are you just a PR person or do you actually understand how ebaY works? I have been intimately acquainted with the ebaY system since 1997 and been writing about it since 1999. How long have you been with them?
Since ebaY usually refuses to talk to me, I rarely contact them in the first place. On the very rare occasions I have talked to someone at ebaY on the record, all I have gotten is information that is less than the truth, definitely less than the whole truth, and usually just corprospeak babble. ebaY lies so frequently, it is hard to tell the rare time they might actually be speaking the truth.
This is simple – give me a realistic explanation of how the Chinese hackers have unlimited access to US ebaY accounts so that they can cherry pick the ones they want, in alphabetical order, with specific profiles, without the need for passwords, with the ability to redirect PayPal payments to themselves, with the ability to change information within actively running legitimate listings, and I MIGHT believe what you have to say about there being no access to your corporate networks, tools, financial database or desktops.
How much of this information is available because of the tools Vladuz is selling, remains to be seen, but the research I have done does point to Chinese hackers being aware of the Vladuz tools. One could theorize that they have used his tools and improved on them, so that they now have their unlimited access to ebaY user accounts.
Now admittedly, this is not exactly friendly or diplomatic, but it was bluntly honest, our normal mode of communication.
ebaY's Public Relations response was:
I must say that I was quite surprised by your response to us. As a new member to the eBay PR team, I was in good faith trying to reach out and build a new relationship with you, because we as a team were hoping to engage with you in the same manner we do with all other journalists and bloggers. We wanted to create a successful working relationship based on honesty, trust and mutual respect. But, it's obvious from the tone of your email below that you do not wish to start a productive and positive working relationship with us, which is a shame.
I have already provided you with the facts for the story you have already published. As I mentioned before, we would expect you to amend your story to reflect the accurate facts, however, I shall leave that to your own judgment about what is most valuable for your readers to know.
Given your apparent disinterest in helping your readers by developing a productive relationship with us that is based on the qualities we value, we have decided it would not benefit any of us to continue the effort with future responses to any of your inquiries.
We tried again and responded with:
In the past I have tried friendly discourse with ebaY, and have received no valid answers to my questions. In the past I have been aggressive and have received no valid answers to my questions. My approach has made no difference in getting valid answers out of ebaY. There is also a history of ebaY acting in a bad faith way against me – so there is a good reason why my attitude is not one based on mutual respect.
I would be happy to open a new channel and start fresh with you, if you would give me valid answers to my valid questions.
In my email to Rob I did not ask about Vladuz hijacking pink accounts to play games on the German boards. This is a non-issue as far as I am concerned, except that it demonstrates additional vulnerabilities. What I did ask about was the FACT that Chinese hackers have unlimited access to US ebaY accounts so that they can cherry pick the ones they want, in alphabetical order, with specific profiles, without the need for passwords, with the ability to redirect PayPal payments to themselves, and with the ability to change information within actively running legitimate listings.
This is happening every day and I have records of dozens of screenshots of this activity on ebaY. Can you please address this very important issue?
At present, all the facts I have do not in any way agree with the things you say are facts. The evidence is to the contrary. There is not evidence, for instance, that even though ebaY might end listings on these hijacked accounts, they have any way to prevent the items from being listed again, or can in any way limit the 1 to 2 million or so listings a day being posted by these Chinese hijackers.
It would be wonderful if ebaY were to turn over a new leaf and develop a relationship with their community that was based on honesty, truth and mutual respect. As the person who has been writing about ebaY the longest, with a firmly established position in the industry as being forthright, trustworthy, and ethical, if you could actually develop a rapport with me, where honesty and openness ruled, it would be a great accomplishment indeed. This would reflect well on you, and on ebaY, and I challenge you to change the current climate between TAG and ebaY, and in turn with the entire industry.
Needless to say, the ebaY PR wonk did not respond. We were amused by the phrase that said, " I have already provided you with the facts for the story you have already published. As I mentioned before, we would expect you to amend your story to reflect the accurate facts"
Of course ebaY did not in any way discuss the issue of the nearly 2 million listings daily on hijacked accounts. The listings that are relisted as fast as ebaY can remove them - sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. This image is a pictorial view of what is happening on ebaY every day.
They did not discuss the ongoing fake second chance offers that continue to be sent to bidders on high priced items, despite ebaY's now hiding the bidder IDs. ebaY did not discuss that Vladuz has posted on several ebaY chat boards using ebaY employee IDs or creating his/her own ebaY employee IDs, such as his latest posting on the ebaY DE board
In fact all ebaY has done is deny and lie.
They say Vladuz, "...gained access to a small number of employee email accounts" when it is obvious that Vladuz can access whatever ebaY employee accounts, whenever he/she wants, on whichever ebaY site he/she chooses. They say, "...no one can access an ebaY account without a password" though we have proved this is not true. ebaY says, "...the hijacked accounts are due to people responding to phishing email", though we have proved this also is not always true, and can not be true where hundreds of accounts are cherry picked, in alphabetical order, and new accounts are used day after day. ebaY denies that anyone has access to their back end, and refuses to acknowledge or provide a single answer as to how the counterfeiters are using these hundreds of hand picked hijacked accounts to sell millions of counterfeit items, and get paid via PayPal through ebaY. TAG is convinced that if ebaY could fix this open back end problem, they would have already done so. The only logical conclusion is that they can't.
Surely it is time for ebaY to come clean on this, and reassure those who use ebaY that they know about the problems and are working on fixing them. They should set up a special team to monitor their own site to prevent these listings from even indexing on the site. As we said in our final email to that ebaY PR person, " It would be wonderful if ebaY were to turn over a new leaf and develop a relationship with their community that was based on honesty, truth and mutual respect."
Don't worry; we are not holding our breath whilst waiting for this change.
TAG has been deeply concerned over the completely open ebaY back end, which has allowed the hackers and the counterfeiters complete access to unlimited ebaY accounts and listings. All ebaY has done, so far as we can tell, is to disappear threads on their site discussing the subject, and attempt to intimidate and threaten websites that have recorded the incidents, and provided access to this information to the public.
On the first of February, TAG wrote to Rob Chesnut, Senior Vice President of Trust and Safety at ebaY, in a futile attempt to get some reassurance that ebaY was actually doing something to close this hole. We referenced the articles on the TAG website we have written on this subject and asked what we consider the most basic question:
If as ebaY claims, the Vladuz back door program does not exist, then HOW are the Chinese counterfeit sellers hijacking thousands of accounts and using those accounts to sell their merchandise and get their payment through PayPal, all without needing passwords on those accounts?
Unfortunately Rob did not see his way clear to respond - on or off the record - and instead shunted the email off to a new and inexperienced ebaY PR person. We can just imagine how the folks at ebaY were probably laughing in their coffee cups about sticking this ingénue with responding to bid bad TAG.
The email we received said:
I have to say we were rather disappointed that you didn't try and contact us prior to writing the piece as when we read your article we have noticed it contains many inaccuracies.
We can hopefully address your 'concerns about the Vladuz problem' with the facts below. Once you've had a look at these, it would be great if we can chat about whether you will amend your current article.
- Some messages were published on a community board on the eBay.de (Germany) web site by a person who gained access to a small number of employee email accounts.
- Our corporate email system operates on an entirely separate database and server system than those that store customer information.
- At no point did he have access to our corporate networks, tools, financial databases, or desktops, and at no point was any user information exposed.
There is no way of gaining access to our internal networks without a securid token issued by IT.
- By policy, our Customer Support Reps cannot store or include any personal data of any user in their email account.
- We take these incidents very seriously, and we are working closely with US and International authorities to investigate it further.
We responded with:
Are you just a PR person or do you actually understand how ebaY works? I have been intimately acquainted with the ebaY system since 1997 and been writing about it since 1999. How long have you been with them?
Since ebaY usually refuses to talk to me, I rarely contact them in the first place. On the very rare occasions I have talked to someone at ebaY on the record, all I have gotten is information that is less than the truth, definitely less than the whole truth, and usually just corprospeak babble. ebaY lies so frequently, it is hard to tell the rare time they might actually be speaking the truth.
This is simple – give me a realistic explanation of how the Chinese hackers have unlimited access to US ebaY accounts so that they can cherry pick the ones they want, in alphabetical order, with specific profiles, without the need for passwords, with the ability to redirect PayPal payments to themselves, with the ability to change information within actively running legitimate listings, and I MIGHT believe what you have to say about there being no access to your corporate networks, tools, financial database or desktops.
How much of this information is available because of the tools Vladuz is selling, remains to be seen, but the research I have done does point to Chinese hackers being aware of the Vladuz tools. One could theorize that they have used his tools and improved on them, so that they now have their unlimited access to ebaY user accounts.
Now admittedly, this is not exactly friendly or diplomatic, but it was bluntly honest, our normal mode of communication.
ebaY's Public Relations response was:
I must say that I was quite surprised by your response to us. As a new member to the eBay PR team, I was in good faith trying to reach out and build a new relationship with you, because we as a team were hoping to engage with you in the same manner we do with all other journalists and bloggers. We wanted to create a successful working relationship based on honesty, trust and mutual respect. But, it's obvious from the tone of your email below that you do not wish to start a productive and positive working relationship with us, which is a shame.
I have already provided you with the facts for the story you have already published. As I mentioned before, we would expect you to amend your story to reflect the accurate facts, however, I shall leave that to your own judgment about what is most valuable for your readers to know.
Given your apparent disinterest in helping your readers by developing a productive relationship with us that is based on the qualities we value, we have decided it would not benefit any of us to continue the effort with future responses to any of your inquiries.
We tried again and responded with:
In the past I have tried friendly discourse with ebaY, and have received no valid answers to my questions. In the past I have been aggressive and have received no valid answers to my questions. My approach has made no difference in getting valid answers out of ebaY. There is also a history of ebaY acting in a bad faith way against me – so there is a good reason why my attitude is not one based on mutual respect.
I would be happy to open a new channel and start fresh with you, if you would give me valid answers to my valid questions.
In my email to Rob I did not ask about Vladuz hijacking pink accounts to play games on the German boards. This is a non-issue as far as I am concerned, except that it demonstrates additional vulnerabilities. What I did ask about was the FACT that Chinese hackers have unlimited access to US ebaY accounts so that they can cherry pick the ones they want, in alphabetical order, with specific profiles, without the need for passwords, with the ability to redirect PayPal payments to themselves, and with the ability to change information within actively running legitimate listings.
This is happening every day and I have records of dozens of screenshots of this activity on ebaY. Can you please address this very important issue?
At present, all the facts I have do not in any way agree with the things you say are facts. The evidence is to the contrary. There is not evidence, for instance, that even though ebaY might end listings on these hijacked accounts, they have any way to prevent the items from being listed again, or can in any way limit the 1 to 2 million or so listings a day being posted by these Chinese hijackers.
It would be wonderful if ebaY were to turn over a new leaf and develop a relationship with their community that was based on honesty, truth and mutual respect. As the person who has been writing about ebaY the longest, with a firmly established position in the industry as being forthright, trustworthy, and ethical, if you could actually develop a rapport with me, where honesty and openness ruled, it would be a great accomplishment indeed. This would reflect well on you, and on ebaY, and I challenge you to change the current climate between TAG and ebaY, and in turn with the entire industry.
Needless to say, the ebaY PR wonk did not respond. We were amused by the phrase that said, " I have already provided you with the facts for the story you have already published. As I mentioned before, we would expect you to amend your story to reflect the accurate facts"
Of course ebaY did not in any way discuss the issue of the nearly 2 million listings daily on hijacked accounts. The listings that are relisted as fast as ebaY can remove them - sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. This image is a pictorial view of what is happening on ebaY every day.
They did not discuss the ongoing fake second chance offers that continue to be sent to bidders on high priced items, despite ebaY's now hiding the bidder IDs. ebaY did not discuss that Vladuz has posted on several ebaY chat boards using ebaY employee IDs or creating his/her own ebaY employee IDs, such as his latest posting on the ebaY DE board
In fact all ebaY has done is deny and lie.
They say Vladuz, "...gained access to a small number of employee email accounts" when it is obvious that Vladuz can access whatever ebaY employee accounts, whenever he/she wants, on whichever ebaY site he/she chooses. They say, "...no one can access an ebaY account without a password" though we have proved this is not true. ebaY says, "...the hijacked accounts are due to people responding to phishing email", though we have proved this also is not always true, and can not be true where hundreds of accounts are cherry picked, in alphabetical order, and new accounts are used day after day. ebaY denies that anyone has access to their back end, and refuses to acknowledge or provide a single answer as to how the counterfeiters are using these hundreds of hand picked hijacked accounts to sell millions of counterfeit items, and get paid via PayPal through ebaY. TAG is convinced that if ebaY could fix this open back end problem, they would have already done so. The only logical conclusion is that they can't.
Surely it is time for ebaY to come clean on this, and reassure those who use ebaY that they know about the problems and are working on fixing them. They should set up a special team to monitor their own site to prevent these listings from even indexing on the site. As we said in our final email to that ebaY PR person, " It would be wonderful if ebaY were to turn over a new leaf and develop a relationship with their community that was based on honesty, truth and mutual respect."
Don't worry; we are not holding our breath whilst waiting for this change.
Friday, February 02, 2007
The Scammers Are Now In Control of ebaY
1 Feb 2007
Also see
ebay Insider Hijack Scam? and ebay's Back Door Wide Open & Letting Scammers In
And
ebaY Motors Hijacked
Those of us who have watched ebaY from a users perspective, for many years, have seen an every increasing ability for scammers to manipulate the site. In the last year, this access has gone from being outside manipulation of flaws and stolen personal information, to complete inside control.
These are the facts:
Every day thousands of listings from China selling brand name counterfeit goods are listed using hijacked accounts. These are usually 1 day listings, the accounts used fit a standard profile and are often accessed in alphabetical order. These listings are for brand name clothing, DVDs, sunglasses, and expand into other categories regularly. The scammer does not need a password to access these accounts.
ebaY Motors has ever increasing fraudulent listings. There are redirects from ebaY search results, manipulation of information in valid running listings, and ever more sophisticated cons, in addition to the all American fraud, found in some used car salesmen, that has been a caricature in our society since the advent of the automobile.
There is a brilliant hacker/codewriter who uses the moniker Vladuz, who makes ebaY his specialty. He has been writing ebaY hacks since 2003, as far as we can trace. This individual recently sent us a link to his latest hack, a tool that he posted on Firefox's plug ins. There have been several screen shots of ebaY's control utilities database posted on the net, on ebaY and off, all with a visible Vladuz watermark on the pages. Vladuz made the posts on ebaY, as far as TAG can tell.
ebaY knows about this problem, and has been removing any threads that appear on their site about it. They just removed a long running thread on ebaY DE, one on which Vladuz has posted on under various guises, including hacked ebaY pink accounts. At the end of December, TAG contacted ebaY through their Trust and Safety live support, and specifically told them what was going on. ebaY cannot say they did not know.
Here is what we have theorized based on all we have seen, and the facts we have:
Vladuz appears to have written a program that gives the scammers complete access to what we are calling ebaY's back end. This back end is the control utilities database used by ebaY, to track everything on their site, that contains all information about ebaY employees and its users. The following images are samples of what Vladuz has made available to the scammer marketplace.
The scammers who have purchased, or otherwise acquired the Vladuz access programs, appear to be able to manipulate the account information of every registered user ID on ebaY. They can monitor in real time what is happening in an account, read email sent through ebaY's system and respond to it through ebaY's system, change any parameter in the user ID account, so, for example, they can receive the PayPal payments the legitimate account holder would have otherwise received. They can add or remove information on a currently running listing without the legitimate account holder knowing it, and conduct business as they please; using all the hijacked accounts they please. No password access is needed. In the article ebay Insider Hijack Scam? we theorized that this was being done by an ebaY insider, as that was the only thing that could explain what we were observing. What we did not realize, and what even TAG found hard to believe, was that the scammers now had insider access, not by working for ebaY, but by using the program built by Vladuz.
Also see
ebay Insider Hijack Scam? and ebay's Back Door Wide Open & Letting Scammers In
And
ebaY Motors Hijacked
Those of us who have watched ebaY from a users perspective, for many years, have seen an every increasing ability for scammers to manipulate the site. In the last year, this access has gone from being outside manipulation of flaws and stolen personal information, to complete inside control.
These are the facts:
Every day thousands of listings from China selling brand name counterfeit goods are listed using hijacked accounts. These are usually 1 day listings, the accounts used fit a standard profile and are often accessed in alphabetical order. These listings are for brand name clothing, DVDs, sunglasses, and expand into other categories regularly. The scammer does not need a password to access these accounts.
ebaY Motors has ever increasing fraudulent listings. There are redirects from ebaY search results, manipulation of information in valid running listings, and ever more sophisticated cons, in addition to the all American fraud, found in some used car salesmen, that has been a caricature in our society since the advent of the automobile.
There is a brilliant hacker/codewriter who uses the moniker Vladuz, who makes ebaY his specialty. He has been writing ebaY hacks since 2003, as far as we can trace. This individual recently sent us a link to his latest hack, a tool that he posted on Firefox's plug ins. There have been several screen shots of ebaY's control utilities database posted on the net, on ebaY and off, all with a visible Vladuz watermark on the pages. Vladuz made the posts on ebaY, as far as TAG can tell.
ebaY knows about this problem, and has been removing any threads that appear on their site about it. They just removed a long running thread on ebaY DE, one on which Vladuz has posted on under various guises, including hacked ebaY pink accounts. At the end of December, TAG contacted ebaY through their Trust and Safety live support, and specifically told them what was going on. ebaY cannot say they did not know.
Here is what we have theorized based on all we have seen, and the facts we have:
Vladuz appears to have written a program that gives the scammers complete access to what we are calling ebaY's back end. This back end is the control utilities database used by ebaY, to track everything on their site, that contains all information about ebaY employees and its users. The following images are samples of what Vladuz has made available to the scammer marketplace.
The scammers who have purchased, or otherwise acquired the Vladuz access programs, appear to be able to manipulate the account information of every registered user ID on ebaY. They can monitor in real time what is happening in an account, read email sent through ebaY's system and respond to it through ebaY's system, change any parameter in the user ID account, so, for example, they can receive the PayPal payments the legitimate account holder would have otherwise received. They can add or remove information on a currently running listing without the legitimate account holder knowing it, and conduct business as they please; using all the hijacked accounts they please. No password access is needed. In the article ebay Insider Hijack Scam? we theorized that this was being done by an ebaY insider, as that was the only thing that could explain what we were observing. What we did not realize, and what even TAG found hard to believe, was that the scammers now had insider access, not by working for ebaY, but by using the program built by Vladuz.
Friday, December 29, 2006
EBAY'S BACK DOOR WIDE OPEN & LETTING SCAMMERS IN
************************************************************
EBAY'S BACK DOOR WIDE OPEN & LETTING SCAMMERS IN
************************************************************
There is a scammer's tool floating around the web that has been offered for sale to several ebaY users. This tool allows a scammer to access ALL user info through a utility ebaY uses to track all user information.
If you look at this link, you will see a page with ebaY seller information overlaid with the scammers SCO Helper program that allows the scammer to send second chance offers through ebaY's own system, to potential victims who have bid on the legitimate seller's items.
http://corriganb.com/sco.jpg
View Scam Tool Sample
Vladuz appears to be the person who wrote the program to break into the part of ebaY where all user information resides, and where it can be manipulated. He/She also appears to have authored "utilities" to exploit this open back door - such as the SCO Helper, that allows scammers to exploit second chance offers. As far as we can figure from online research, Vladuz is the online handle of a Romanian programmer/hacker, whose name pops up in relation to various scammer sites.
It is very possible that this ebaY function is what is being used by the scammers to post the BAPE auctions, and monitor email queries, replies and payments so they can reroute them. It is obvious that this information is readily accessible to the scammers, and that ebaY has not done anything to close the back door being used by the scammers.
For everyone wondering how scammers on ebaY manage to hijack accounts at will, this is the answer. ebaY says the scammers are getting the info due to ebaY users falling for phishing scams. That explanation let ebaY off the hook, but TAG never believed it, as it never made sense. In light of the BAPE scams - see this article -
BAPE Scam
it was definitely NOT falling for a phishing scam that exposed the user information of "Jack" or other tech savvy users who have contacted us since, with the same story. In the article we said that it appeared to have to be an insider with access to inside ebaY information. We now conclude that it may not be an ebaY insider, but instead an outsider, with complete access to all user account inside information.
If this is as it appears, ebaY is and has been aware of this wide open back door, and can't or won't do anything about it. We will update this on our website as more information becomes available.
Class action suit anyone?
An interesting note, is that since the earthquake on 26 Dec in Asia, cut off internet access to China and other Asian countries, the number of scams on ebaY has dropped drastically, as is easy to see by searching for BAPE Hoody listings.
Another note of interest is a reference to this tool that appeared on a Chinese Blog. The translation is done via the Google page translator, and as such is not the greatest - but it gives a good idea of what is going on. We have edited out a vulgar word or two - but the rest is as it appeared. Please take note of the dates!
====================
Ebay fishing website procedures
Author : indifference boys Date : 2006-03-30
Small size of the Chinese University :
Classification tool backdoor procedure : "br/> Linux operating platforms :
Tools size : 29,103 Bytes
MD5 5de7108546dfdaeb6d06fb3e02ad2af4 documents :
Source : fac@frauda.net tools
Ebay fishing website procedures "br/>Readme file
Copyright 2004 vladuz
Fac@frauda.net
-----------------------------------------------------
=
Updates : 1.6 : - WORKS WITH REGISTER_GLOBALS OFF!
- Checks if cvv2. cc and pin are numeric only if they are long enough and in lenght. (3 cvv2 min. pin min 4 min 16 cc)
- After script deletes cookie completed tasks
=
Ebay scam turns v1.6 FINAL~ This scam is in many ways.
It does the following :
Http://www.basd-action.net/initiatives/index.php : identical login/sign-in page of 22,500 (the new one)
Index2.php : 1 : if _ _ _ user password are invalid. it will show the identical '[invalid. try again 'of England.
2 : if user/pass are valid. cc/cvv2/exp/real echo ask for the name and current address.
3 : it can check if a user/pass are valid or not.
Index3.php : 1 : Send email and redirect my home to 22,500
2 : Verify if all fields are filled in corectly.
-----------------------------------------------------
You must have the following installed (this turns on Yahoo hosting files work (paid one))
1. Libcurl installed with PHP.
2. Some brain to configure it.
-----------------------------------------------------
Configuration :
Open your password setup and index2.php
Open index3.php and setup your subject and email address.
Your email is where you get the emails with user/pass/cc/cvv2/name/exp-date/ip/date/time
Subject is the email subject
Your password is used for email verification or manual checks. For example, if you setuped your password as "vladuz" and you want to do a manual check for the user "a" pass with "b" you have to type this in the government payments are capped : index2.php?user=a&pass=b&pwd=vladuz
On manual verification (when using pwd=) Invalid! the file will either return or, if valid. it will return the user and pass (for copy/paste hehe)
Simple enough?
Well go there and the [expletives deleted]!
-----------------------------------------------------
For ANY fac@frauda.net scam email me and I 'll do it in 30 hours max.
Study it, and refrain from doing bad things!
Member of the document only allows downloading! Download the registration |
===================
EBAY'S BACK DOOR WIDE OPEN & LETTING SCAMMERS IN
************************************************************
There is a scammer's tool floating around the web that has been offered for sale to several ebaY users. This tool allows a scammer to access ALL user info through a utility ebaY uses to track all user information.
If you look at this link, you will see a page with ebaY seller information overlaid with the scammers SCO Helper program that allows the scammer to send second chance offers through ebaY's own system, to potential victims who have bid on the legitimate seller's items.
http://corriganb.com/sco.jpg
View Scam Tool Sample
Vladuz appears to be the person who wrote the program to break into the part of ebaY where all user information resides, and where it can be manipulated. He/She also appears to have authored "utilities" to exploit this open back door - such as the SCO Helper, that allows scammers to exploit second chance offers. As far as we can figure from online research, Vladuz is the online handle of a Romanian programmer/hacker, whose name pops up in relation to various scammer sites.
It is very possible that this ebaY function is what is being used by the scammers to post the BAPE auctions, and monitor email queries, replies and payments so they can reroute them. It is obvious that this information is readily accessible to the scammers, and that ebaY has not done anything to close the back door being used by the scammers.
For everyone wondering how scammers on ebaY manage to hijack accounts at will, this is the answer. ebaY says the scammers are getting the info due to ebaY users falling for phishing scams. That explanation let ebaY off the hook, but TAG never believed it, as it never made sense. In light of the BAPE scams - see this article -
BAPE Scam
it was definitely NOT falling for a phishing scam that exposed the user information of "Jack" or other tech savvy users who have contacted us since, with the same story. In the article we said that it appeared to have to be an insider with access to inside ebaY information. We now conclude that it may not be an ebaY insider, but instead an outsider, with complete access to all user account inside information.
If this is as it appears, ebaY is and has been aware of this wide open back door, and can't or won't do anything about it. We will update this on our website as more information becomes available.
Class action suit anyone?
An interesting note, is that since the earthquake on 26 Dec in Asia, cut off internet access to China and other Asian countries, the number of scams on ebaY has dropped drastically, as is easy to see by searching for BAPE Hoody listings.
Another note of interest is a reference to this tool that appeared on a Chinese Blog. The translation is done via the Google page translator, and as such is not the greatest - but it gives a good idea of what is going on. We have edited out a vulgar word or two - but the rest is as it appeared. Please take note of the dates!
====================
Ebay fishing website procedures
Author : indifference boys Date : 2006-03-30
Small size of the Chinese University :
Classification tool backdoor procedure : "br/> Linux operating platforms :
Tools size : 29,103 Bytes
MD5 5de7108546dfdaeb6d06fb3e02ad2af4 documents :
Source : fac@frauda.net tools
Ebay fishing website procedures "br/>Readme file
Copyright 2004 vladuz
Fac@frauda.net
-----------------------------------------------------
=
Updates : 1.6 : - WORKS WITH REGISTER_GLOBALS OFF!
- Checks if cvv2. cc and pin are numeric only if they are long enough and in lenght. (3 cvv2 min. pin min 4 min 16 cc)
- After script deletes cookie completed tasks
=
Ebay scam turns v1.6 FINAL~ This scam is in many ways.
It does the following :
Http://www.basd-action.net/initiatives/index.php : identical login/sign-in page of 22,500 (the new one)
Index2.php : 1 : if _ _ _ user password are invalid. it will show the identical '[invalid. try again 'of England.
2 : if user/pass are valid. cc/cvv2/exp/real echo ask for the name and current address.
3 : it can check if a user/pass are valid or not.
Index3.php : 1 : Send email and redirect my home to 22,500
2 : Verify if all fields are filled in corectly.
-----------------------------------------------------
You must have the following installed (this turns on Yahoo hosting files work (paid one))
1. Libcurl installed with PHP.
2. Some brain to configure it.
-----------------------------------------------------
Configuration :
Open your password setup and index2.php
Open index3.php and setup your subject and email address.
Your email is where you get the emails with user/pass/cc/cvv2/name/exp-date/ip/date/time
Subject is the email subject
Your password is used for email verification or manual checks. For example, if you setuped your password as "vladuz" and you want to do a manual check for the user "a" pass with "b" you have to type this in the government payments are capped : index2.php?user=a&pass=b&pwd=vladuz
On manual verification (when using pwd=) Invalid! the file will either return or, if valid. it will return the user and pass (for copy/paste hehe)
Simple enough?
Well go there and the [expletives deleted]!
-----------------------------------------------------
For ANY fac@frauda.net scam email me and I 'll do it in 30 hours max.
Study it, and refrain from doing bad things!
Member of the document only allows downloading! Download the registration |
===================
Sunday, December 17, 2006
ebaY Insider Hijack Scam?
ebaY Insider Hijack Scam?
Sat 16 Dec 06
On Tuesday 12 Dec 2006 we received an email from a subscriber, describing how his ebaY selling account had been hijacked, and was being used to sell BAPE Hoody shirts. There were many interesting elements of this hijacking, different from those we have seen in the past. Upon seeing items he had not listed, the legitimate account holder, let's call him Jack, removed the listings and changed his password on the account. In addition he found that all his email notification preferences had been set to NO. He set them back to YES. By lunch time, the fake items were back, so this time using a work computer, Jack changed his ebaY password again. This made no difference and the items reappeared.
Jack's home computer is firewalled and has a full complement of detection software installed and active. He is a savvy user well versed in phishing, and has not responded in a long time to any ebaY "second chance" offers. He has not logged in to ebaY via any channel but his own links, and he has not filled in any pop up sign in request. Jack's work computer is on a very secure system, as he works in an industry where online security is paramount. He did not fall for a scam, have his computer invaded, have his identity stolen or compromised.
In trying to analyze what was going on, it appeared that the hijacker or hijackers had to have access to accounts independent of passwords, and have the ability to set account parameters so the legit account holder would not know what was going on. If this is so, it either points to someone working inside ebaY, or to a security hole so big, you can drive a tractor trailer through it. Neither situation is tolerable.
Searching ebaY for BAPE Hoody, brought up 140 pages of one day listings. All the one day listings were on hijacked accounts, and the hijacked accounts were used in groups by the first letter, so accounts with very high (usually 100%) feedback, starting with the letters G, H, I, J were in great evidence. The accounts were US accounts, but in reading the description, certain phrases would indicate that English was not the scammers first language. A check of the feedback would show the legitimate account holder as being a buyer only, or a seller of items not including designer clothing, or any clothing for that matter. Many accounts had been inactive for many months or years.
We did a buy it now on one item that was evidently on a hijacked account. We pulled the account holder's contact info, and it all appeared legitimate via a white pages check. We checked their email address against their PayPal address on PayPal, and that too appeared legitimate. The scammer never contacted us for payment, so we don't know how that part of the scam would have worked. Other emails with questions sent to the scammers by the folks helping us with this investigation, yielded answers such as "yes, if you buy two items ,you only pay them with 150USD .thanks" and "to you address total pay only US160.00" again suggesting that English was not their first language, and that the scammer had access to emails sent through the ebaY system. We tried another two BINs, but never heard from the scammer, despite repeated requests for payment information. The net result is, we don't know how the scammer worked this so that they received the payment rather than the legitimate account holder. We did eventually receive an email from the legitimate account holder on the last two BINs we did, saying their account was hijacked and not to make payment.
These items continued to be listed every day, with ebaY only shutting down a small percentage of them. If this is an ebaY insider job, TAG is baffled as to why they haven't tracked this to the source and shut it down.
As a matter of interest, some of the images have been tracked to this source whose domain is registered in Beijing, China - -
http://www.xhxh246.com/Product.asp?BigClassName=BAPESTASHOES
http://www.xhxh246.com/index.asp
This story is ongoing, so we will update it as we find more information.
Sat 16 Dec 06
On Tuesday 12 Dec 2006 we received an email from a subscriber, describing how his ebaY selling account had been hijacked, and was being used to sell BAPE Hoody shirts. There were many interesting elements of this hijacking, different from those we have seen in the past. Upon seeing items he had not listed, the legitimate account holder, let's call him Jack, removed the listings and changed his password on the account. In addition he found that all his email notification preferences had been set to NO. He set them back to YES. By lunch time, the fake items were back, so this time using a work computer, Jack changed his ebaY password again. This made no difference and the items reappeared.
Jack's home computer is firewalled and has a full complement of detection software installed and active. He is a savvy user well versed in phishing, and has not responded in a long time to any ebaY "second chance" offers. He has not logged in to ebaY via any channel but his own links, and he has not filled in any pop up sign in request. Jack's work computer is on a very secure system, as he works in an industry where online security is paramount. He did not fall for a scam, have his computer invaded, have his identity stolen or compromised.
In trying to analyze what was going on, it appeared that the hijacker or hijackers had to have access to accounts independent of passwords, and have the ability to set account parameters so the legit account holder would not know what was going on. If this is so, it either points to someone working inside ebaY, or to a security hole so big, you can drive a tractor trailer through it. Neither situation is tolerable.
Searching ebaY for BAPE Hoody, brought up 140 pages of one day listings. All the one day listings were on hijacked accounts, and the hijacked accounts were used in groups by the first letter, so accounts with very high (usually 100%) feedback, starting with the letters G, H, I, J were in great evidence. The accounts were US accounts, but in reading the description, certain phrases would indicate that English was not the scammers first language. A check of the feedback would show the legitimate account holder as being a buyer only, or a seller of items not including designer clothing, or any clothing for that matter. Many accounts had been inactive for many months or years.
We did a buy it now on one item that was evidently on a hijacked account. We pulled the account holder's contact info, and it all appeared legitimate via a white pages check. We checked their email address against their PayPal address on PayPal, and that too appeared legitimate. The scammer never contacted us for payment, so we don't know how that part of the scam would have worked. Other emails with questions sent to the scammers by the folks helping us with this investigation, yielded answers such as "yes, if you buy two items ,you only pay them with 150USD .thanks" and "to you address total pay only US160.00" again suggesting that English was not their first language, and that the scammer had access to emails sent through the ebaY system. We tried another two BINs, but never heard from the scammer, despite repeated requests for payment information. The net result is, we don't know how the scammer worked this so that they received the payment rather than the legitimate account holder. We did eventually receive an email from the legitimate account holder on the last two BINs we did, saying their account was hijacked and not to make payment.
These items continued to be listed every day, with ebaY only shutting down a small percentage of them. If this is an ebaY insider job, TAG is baffled as to why they haven't tracked this to the source and shut it down.
As a matter of interest, some of the images have been tracked to this source whose domain is registered in Beijing, China - -
http://www.xhxh246.com/Product.asp?BigClassName=BAPESTASHOES
http://www.xhxh246.com/index.asp
This story is ongoing, so we will update it as we find more information.
Sunday, October 22, 2006
ebaY Motors Hijacked
22 Oct 2006
CORRECTION 7 NOVEMBER 2006
After more research we have found that being logged in to ebaY is not what allows the scammer to tap into your ebaY account information. Though the redirect is direct from ebaY, once you try to purchase the item you get a screen asking you to log in again - even though you were already logged in to ebaY. This second log in is actually on the scammers site, and by loggin in you are giving them all the information you need for the scammer to access everything on your ebaY account that you can access.
We have also found that even ebaY's own image service is being used by the scammers to execute the redirect.
On the 4th of October 2006 a buyer who had been scammed on ebaY Motors using a second chance offer and had previously reported the scam to ebaY, was told that ebaY was not responsible, quoth the email, " Please keep in mind that we do include information on the messages sent through our system as well as on our site that state items should not be purchased outside of the eBay platform and should not be paid for using Western Union." The problem is, that as far as the buyer knew, the purchase WAS made on the ebaY platform, by going to ebaY, through the buyers normal links - NOT an email link - logging on to ebaY - NOT a third party site - and clicking on the second chance offer on ebaY's listing page. When the page opened, the buyer then clicked Buy It Now, his personal information was populated into a confirm shipping address page with his name and address from ebaY's servers, and when he got to the Pay Now page he was given the option of Western Union Wire Transfer, which (unfortunately) he used.
Now all of you who read TAGnotes and visit our website know that it is never safe to pay a stranger for a purchase with WU, but not everyone knows that. What ebaY has always told users is that as long as you come to ebaY directly, and log in to ebaY directly, and complete the sale on ebaY, you are safe. This is no longer true. This buyer did come to ebaY and log in to ebaY, but due to a security hole the size of Niagara Falls in ebaY's coding, was automatically redirected from the ebaY link he clicked on, to a third party scam site, where he was robbed of his money. This redirect happened so fast he never saw it happen.
ebaY has known about this problem at least since 4 October, and of course posted no warnings about it, much less fixed it. On 22 October, an associate of the subscriber who informed TAG of this scam was able to use the same process and "buy" a fake vehicle from a scammer still using the same security hole. The buyer searched ebaY, found an item, clicked on the ebaY search result link, was taken to a page that looked identical to an ebaY listing, used Buy It Now, had their personal information populated automatically into a confirm address section and was taken to a Pay Now screen. To check that the personal information populated into the form came from the ebaY site, they first went to their ebaY account and changed some of their personal information to fake info, and the form populated with the fake info from ebaY, the only place in the world the info existed.
From what we have been told (but not witnessed) this redirect scam is also being used for second chance offers. The buyer follows ebaY's rule of going directly to the ebaY site to respond to a second chance offer, and not use a link in an email, logs into ebaY, goes to the second chance offer, and is redirected to a scam site where their money is stolen. The implication here is that My ebaY is also compromised, but we have not seen actual evidence of this yet, though it is also possible that the second chance offer message is only appearing on the closed View Item page.
Needless to say, all the accounts used were hijacked accounts, and ebaY's claim that these accounts are hijacked from information gained via external phishing scams is getting very old and less believable all the time. TAG has always said that ebaY must be considered as the prime suspect as the source for finding the buyer email addresses, so the buyer can be contacted by the second chance scammer on items the buyer bid on but for which they did not have the high bid. In light of this major security breach, TAG wonders if any information is secure on ebaY.
Right now we have only seen this redirect happening in ebaY Motors, but that does not mean it is not happening on other parts of ebaY. TAG has observed at least 3 variations of this scam, making it likely that the scammer/hackers who figured this out, shared the information with other scammers. We are sure to see more and more of this unless ebaY manages to plug this security breach.
One Tech Guru theorized that this might have been caused by ebaY's band aid fix for their broken search issues. ebaY search is broken, and to "fix" it ebaY is using a javascript redirect from the broken search result (bad) to a usable search result (good). Unfortunately this might be the open door that is taking a buyer from a legitimate search result (good), to a scammers redirect page (bad) using the same javascript code ebaY has bandaged and patched their problems with.
TAG feels ebaY should be responsible to reimburse every buyer who lost money to these scams, since these items were found and reached through legitimate ebaY links, directly from the ebaY site. TAG also recommends that NO purchases be made on ebaY Motors until this huge security gap is fixed. As a temporary work around, TAG further recommends that all users turn off /disable javascript in their browser settings for all of ebaY.Com.
The following images are from an item we found on ebaY today.
The first shows the listing from ebaY's search result
The second shows the item listed on the sellers ebaY item list
The third shows the URL reached when clicking on the link from ebaY's search result page and the item appearing on the ebaY site
The fourth shows the URL now redirected to the scammers site
Much information and assistance with this article came from The Folks at:
EBAY MOTORS SUCKS
And from other TAG subscribers and Gurus
Our thanks to all at Margaritaville for their invaluable assistance and advice.
CORRECTION 7 NOVEMBER 2006
After more research we have found that being logged in to ebaY is not what allows the scammer to tap into your ebaY account information. Though the redirect is direct from ebaY, once you try to purchase the item you get a screen asking you to log in again - even though you were already logged in to ebaY. This second log in is actually on the scammers site, and by loggin in you are giving them all the information you need for the scammer to access everything on your ebaY account that you can access.
We have also found that even ebaY's own image service is being used by the scammers to execute the redirect.
On the 4th of October 2006 a buyer who had been scammed on ebaY Motors using a second chance offer and had previously reported the scam to ebaY, was told that ebaY was not responsible, quoth the email, " Please keep in mind that we do include information on the messages sent through our system as well as on our site that state items should not be purchased outside of the eBay platform and should not be paid for using Western Union." The problem is, that as far as the buyer knew, the purchase WAS made on the ebaY platform, by going to ebaY, through the buyers normal links - NOT an email link - logging on to ebaY - NOT a third party site - and clicking on the second chance offer on ebaY's listing page. When the page opened, the buyer then clicked Buy It Now, his personal information was populated into a confirm shipping address page with his name and address from ebaY's servers, and when he got to the Pay Now page he was given the option of Western Union Wire Transfer, which (unfortunately) he used.
Now all of you who read TAGnotes and visit our website know that it is never safe to pay a stranger for a purchase with WU, but not everyone knows that. What ebaY has always told users is that as long as you come to ebaY directly, and log in to ebaY directly, and complete the sale on ebaY, you are safe. This is no longer true. This buyer did come to ebaY and log in to ebaY, but due to a security hole the size of Niagara Falls in ebaY's coding, was automatically redirected from the ebaY link he clicked on, to a third party scam site, where he was robbed of his money. This redirect happened so fast he never saw it happen.
ebaY has known about this problem at least since 4 October, and of course posted no warnings about it, much less fixed it. On 22 October, an associate of the subscriber who informed TAG of this scam was able to use the same process and "buy" a fake vehicle from a scammer still using the same security hole. The buyer searched ebaY, found an item, clicked on the ebaY search result link, was taken to a page that looked identical to an ebaY listing, used Buy It Now, had their personal information populated automatically into a confirm address section and was taken to a Pay Now screen. To check that the personal information populated into the form came from the ebaY site, they first went to their ebaY account and changed some of their personal information to fake info, and the form populated with the fake info from ebaY, the only place in the world the info existed.
From what we have been told (but not witnessed) this redirect scam is also being used for second chance offers. The buyer follows ebaY's rule of going directly to the ebaY site to respond to a second chance offer, and not use a link in an email, logs into ebaY, goes to the second chance offer, and is redirected to a scam site where their money is stolen. The implication here is that My ebaY is also compromised, but we have not seen actual evidence of this yet, though it is also possible that the second chance offer message is only appearing on the closed View Item page.
Needless to say, all the accounts used were hijacked accounts, and ebaY's claim that these accounts are hijacked from information gained via external phishing scams is getting very old and less believable all the time. TAG has always said that ebaY must be considered as the prime suspect as the source for finding the buyer email addresses, so the buyer can be contacted by the second chance scammer on items the buyer bid on but for which they did not have the high bid. In light of this major security breach, TAG wonders if any information is secure on ebaY.
Right now we have only seen this redirect happening in ebaY Motors, but that does not mean it is not happening on other parts of ebaY. TAG has observed at least 3 variations of this scam, making it likely that the scammer/hackers who figured this out, shared the information with other scammers. We are sure to see more and more of this unless ebaY manages to plug this security breach.
One Tech Guru theorized that this might have been caused by ebaY's band aid fix for their broken search issues. ebaY search is broken, and to "fix" it ebaY is using a javascript redirect from the broken search result (bad) to a usable search result (good). Unfortunately this might be the open door that is taking a buyer from a legitimate search result (good), to a scammers redirect page (bad) using the same javascript code ebaY has bandaged and patched their problems with.
TAG feels ebaY should be responsible to reimburse every buyer who lost money to these scams, since these items were found and reached through legitimate ebaY links, directly from the ebaY site. TAG also recommends that NO purchases be made on ebaY Motors until this huge security gap is fixed. As a temporary work around, TAG further recommends that all users turn off /disable javascript in their browser settings for all of ebaY.Com.
The following images are from an item we found on ebaY today.
The first shows the listing from ebaY's search result
The second shows the item listed on the sellers ebaY item list
The third shows the URL reached when clicking on the link from ebaY's search result page and the item appearing on the ebaY site
The fourth shows the URL now redirected to the scammers site
Much information and assistance with this article came from The Folks at:
EBAY MOTORS SUCKS
And from other TAG subscribers and Gurus
Our thanks to all at Margaritaville for their invaluable assistance and advice.
Sunday, March 05, 2006
The Unannounced ebaY Fee Increases
The Unannounced ebaY Fee Increases
2 Mar 2006
Revised 5 Mar 2006 to add information about the unannounced store fee increase
[Editors Note: We decided to leave both these articles posted so the changes we made would be clearly available for comparison. We found out about the store price increase when a reader emailed us after reading the original 2 March article posted on this blog]
On 18 January 2006, Bill Cobb, president of ebaY North America, announced a price increase for ebaY US. Of course, in the normal ebaY way, it was announced as fee adjustments, made to appear as if it was a minor increase, and that some fee decreases would mitigate the fact that ebaY has increased their fees every year, despite year over year record breaking profitability. As always, the business community looks at this and says that ebaY is justified in charging whatever the market will bear, but it once again puts the lie to ebaY's propaganda about being community based.
The fee increase went into effect on 22 Feb 06. The way the new fees were structured, ebaY reduced the fee on items listed at 99 cents or less from 25 cents to 20 cents, and increased the final value fee on the most common ending price level, an additional one quarter percent (.25%). They made some features free, including picture show and sales reports plus, and reduced fees for the second and third tiers of picture manager (all pretty worthless features, much less expensive and more reliably found from third party service providers). In addition, Bill Cobb said, "There are no changes for eBay Stores fees.", which you will see further along in this article, was a blatant lie on Mr Cobb's part. Despite the unannounced fee increases made to the store listing fees, TAG also expects an increase in store subscription fees, probably in the May/June time frame.
You can see the fee increase announcement at -http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200601181327302.html
What ebaY failed to mention, was that there were fee increases they did not tell their sellers about. TAG wonders if these fee increases, which probably border on the illegal, and violated ebaY's own user agreement, were even too sleazy for ebaY to mention in public, or if ebaY felt they could slip them in without anyone noticing. Once word got out and they were questioned about it, they would have probably used their old, "it has always been that way, we just didn't enforce it" line, or some other excuses, complete lies all, that seller's have the invoices to prove. Fortunately erudite TAG subscribers did notice the fee increases, and let us know about them.
There are two sets of ebaY increases, that ebaY failed to mention, or blatantly lied about. The first increase ebaY forget to mention, comes into play when a seller revises a listing to decrease the price of the item in that listing. In the past if the seller decreased the price of a listing, so that it took the listing into a lower fee category, ebaY would refund the difference. Just as, if the seller increased the price of a listing, ebaY would add the extra fee to the seller's bill. Now what ebaY is doing, is not refunding the difference in fees, in the case of a decreased price, but is still adding the increased fee when an item is revised to increase the price. This also probably applies to the reserve fee, when the change to the fee is based on a lowered reserve price. ebaY explicitly mentions, " Reduce the start price of your item. (You will not receive credit for the difference in your insertion fees.)" but does not address other fees, such as listing duration fees, or other items you might revise. See the revise your listing info at -
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/edit_listing.html
For example, if you look at the fee schedule at -
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html
If you start a listing at $59.99, the insertion fee would be $2.40. You then later revise it to $49.99. ebaY will not refund the $1.20 difference, they will keep it. But if you start an item at $49.99, you will be charged $1.20, and then later revise that to $59.99, ebaY will charge you the extra $1.20 to bring the listing fee up to $2.40.
The only place you can see this fee change is on the revise your listing page. But since that page is included in the user agreement by default (as are all ebaY's little back doors hiding information), ebaY will claim you agreed to this change by using their site. TAG argues that this is an illegal rule, keeping fees they are not entitled to, but until someone successfully sues them over this issue, or media attention shames them into a change, it will be the ebaY law.
The second fee increases were made in the stores, by removing the 60, 90 and 120 day listing durations. The only option now open to store users is 30 day and Good till Cancelled (GTC). All the listing upgrade fees are now charged every 30 days, and that change causes increases that range up to 300% (depending on duration) for those who previously used 60/90/120 day durations. The fee increases are shown as follows:
Gallery was 1 cent for 120 days and now costs 1 cent each 30 day period
Listing Designer (see note) was 10 cents for 120 days, and now cost 10 cents for each 30 day period.
(Note) No charge for listing designer for Blackthorne Basic, Blackthorne Pro, or Selling Manager Pro subscribers.
Highlight was $11 for 120 days, and now costs $5 each 30 day period.
Featured in Search was $34.95 for 120 days, and now costs $19.95 each 30 day period
Additional pictures were 45 cents for 120 days, and now costs 15 cents each 30 day period
Supersize pictures were $1.50 for 120 days, and now costs 75 cents each 30 day period
Picture Pack was $3.01 for 120 days, and now costs 76 cents each 30 day period
There is one price reduction, and that is for the Picture Show which was 55 cents for 120 days, and is now free
You can see the old stores fee schedule at - http://snipurl.com/n723
And the current store fees at - http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/storefees.html
Once again ebaY shows how willingly and blatantly it lies. When the President of North America, can post that there are no fee increases in stores, when there were increases, it shows how deeply corrupt ebaY and its management is.
2 Mar 2006
Revised 5 Mar 2006 to add information about the unannounced store fee increase
[Editors Note: We decided to leave both these articles posted so the changes we made would be clearly available for comparison. We found out about the store price increase when a reader emailed us after reading the original 2 March article posted on this blog]
On 18 January 2006, Bill Cobb, president of ebaY North America, announced a price increase for ebaY US. Of course, in the normal ebaY way, it was announced as fee adjustments, made to appear as if it was a minor increase, and that some fee decreases would mitigate the fact that ebaY has increased their fees every year, despite year over year record breaking profitability. As always, the business community looks at this and says that ebaY is justified in charging whatever the market will bear, but it once again puts the lie to ebaY's propaganda about being community based.
The fee increase went into effect on 22 Feb 06. The way the new fees were structured, ebaY reduced the fee on items listed at 99 cents or less from 25 cents to 20 cents, and increased the final value fee on the most common ending price level, an additional one quarter percent (.25%). They made some features free, including picture show and sales reports plus, and reduced fees for the second and third tiers of picture manager (all pretty worthless features, much less expensive and more reliably found from third party service providers). In addition, Bill Cobb said, "There are no changes for eBay Stores fees.", which you will see further along in this article, was a blatant lie on Mr Cobb's part. Despite the unannounced fee increases made to the store listing fees, TAG also expects an increase in store subscription fees, probably in the May/June time frame.
You can see the fee increase announcement at -http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200601181327302.html
What ebaY failed to mention, was that there were fee increases they did not tell their sellers about. TAG wonders if these fee increases, which probably border on the illegal, and violated ebaY's own user agreement, were even too sleazy for ebaY to mention in public, or if ebaY felt they could slip them in without anyone noticing. Once word got out and they were questioned about it, they would have probably used their old, "it has always been that way, we just didn't enforce it" line, or some other excuses, complete lies all, that seller's have the invoices to prove. Fortunately erudite TAG subscribers did notice the fee increases, and let us know about them.
There are two sets of ebaY increases, that ebaY failed to mention, or blatantly lied about. The first increase ebaY forget to mention, comes into play when a seller revises a listing to decrease the price of the item in that listing. In the past if the seller decreased the price of a listing, so that it took the listing into a lower fee category, ebaY would refund the difference. Just as, if the seller increased the price of a listing, ebaY would add the extra fee to the seller's bill. Now what ebaY is doing, is not refunding the difference in fees, in the case of a decreased price, but is still adding the increased fee when an item is revised to increase the price. This also probably applies to the reserve fee, when the change to the fee is based on a lowered reserve price. ebaY explicitly mentions, " Reduce the start price of your item. (You will not receive credit for the difference in your insertion fees.)" but does not address other fees, such as listing duration fees, or other items you might revise. See the revise your listing info at -
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/edit_listing.html
For example, if you look at the fee schedule at -
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html
If you start a listing at $59.99, the insertion fee would be $2.40. You then later revise it to $49.99. ebaY will not refund the $1.20 difference, they will keep it. But if you start an item at $49.99, you will be charged $1.20, and then later revise that to $59.99, ebaY will charge you the extra $1.20 to bring the listing fee up to $2.40.
The only place you can see this fee change is on the revise your listing page. But since that page is included in the user agreement by default (as are all ebaY's little back doors hiding information), ebaY will claim you agreed to this change by using their site. TAG argues that this is an illegal rule, keeping fees they are not entitled to, but until someone successfully sues them over this issue, or media attention shames them into a change, it will be the ebaY law.
The second fee increases were made in the stores, by removing the 60, 90 and 120 day listing durations. The only option now open to store users is 30 day and Good till Cancelled (GTC). All the listing upgrade fees are now charged every 30 days, and that change causes increases that range up to 300% (depending on duration) for those who previously used 60/90/120 day durations. The fee increases are shown as follows:
Gallery was 1 cent for 120 days and now costs 1 cent each 30 day period
Listing Designer (see note) was 10 cents for 120 days, and now cost 10 cents for each 30 day period.
(Note) No charge for listing designer for Blackthorne Basic, Blackthorne Pro, or Selling Manager Pro subscribers.
Highlight was $11 for 120 days, and now costs $5 each 30 day period.
Featured in Search was $34.95 for 120 days, and now costs $19.95 each 30 day period
Additional pictures were 45 cents for 120 days, and now costs 15 cents each 30 day period
Supersize pictures were $1.50 for 120 days, and now costs 75 cents each 30 day period
Picture Pack was $3.01 for 120 days, and now costs 76 cents each 30 day period
There is one price reduction, and that is for the Picture Show which was 55 cents for 120 days, and is now free
You can see the old stores fee schedule at - http://snipurl.com/n723
And the current store fees at - http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/storefees.html
Once again ebaY shows how willingly and blatantly it lies. When the President of North America, can post that there are no fee increases in stores, when there were increases, it shows how deeply corrupt ebaY and its management is.
Thursday, March 02, 2006
The Unannounced ebaY Fee Increase
The Unannounced ebaY Fee Increase
2 Mar 2006
On 18 January 2006, Bill Cobb, president of ebaY North America, announced a price increase for ebaY US. Of course, in the normal ebaY way, it was announced as fee adjustments, made to appear as if it was a minor increase, and that some fee decreases would mitigate the fact that ebaY has increased their fees every year, despite year over year record breaking profitability. As always, the business community looks at this and says that ebaY is justified in charging whatever the market will bear, but it once again puts the lie to ebaY's propaganda about being community based.
The fee increase went into effect on 22 Feb 06. The way the new fees were structured, ebaY reduced the fee on items listed at 99 cents or less from 25 cents to 20 cents, and increased the final value fee on the most common ending price level, an additional one quarter percent (.25%). They made some features free, including picture show and sales reports plus, and reduced fees for the second and third tiers of picture manager (all pretty worthless features, much less expensive and more reliably found from third party service providers). And though they did not increase the store fees, TAG does expect an increase in store fees, probably in the May/June time frame.
What ebaY failed to mention, was that there was a fee increase they did not tell their sellers about. TAG wonders if this fee increase, which probably borders on the illegal, was even too sleazy for ebaY to mention in public, or if ebaY felt they could slip it in without anyone noticing. Once word got out and they were questioned about it, they would have probably used their old, "it has always been that way, we just didn't enforce it" line, a complete lie that seller's have the invoices to prove. Fortunately an erudite TAG subscriber did notice, and let us know about it.
The increase ebaY forget to mention, comes into play when a seller revises a listing to decrease the price of the item in that listing. In the past if the seller decreased the price of a listing, so that it took the listing into a lower fee category, ebaY would refund the difference. Just as, if the seller increased the price of a listing, ebaY would add the extra fee to the seller's bill. Now what ebaY is doing, is not refunding the difference in fees, in the case of a decreased price, but is still adding the increased fee when an item is revised to increase the price. This also probably applies to the reserve fee, when the change to the fee is based on a lowered reserve price. ebaY explicitly mentions, " Reduce the start price of your item. (You will not receive credit for the difference in your insertion fees.)" but does not address other fees, such as listing duration fees, or other items you might revise. See the revise your listing info at -
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/edit_listing.html
For example, if you look at the fee schedule at -
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html
If you start a listing at $59.99, the insertion fee would be $2.40. You then later revise it to $49.99. ebaY will not refund the $1.20 difference, they will keep it. But if you start an item at $49.99, you will be charged $1.20, and then later revise that to $59.99, ebaY will charge you the extra $1.20 to bring the listing fee up to $2.40.
The only place you can see this fee change is on the revise your listing page. But since that page is included in the user agreement by default (as are all ebaY's little back door hidden information), ebaY will claim you agreed to this change by using their site. TAG argues that this is an illegal rule, keeping fees they are not entitled to, but until someone successfully sues them over this issue, or media attention shames them into a change, it will be the ebaY law.
Want more information on the Online Auction and Trading Industry? Go to -
http://www.auctionguild.com
2 Mar 2006
On 18 January 2006, Bill Cobb, president of ebaY North America, announced a price increase for ebaY US. Of course, in the normal ebaY way, it was announced as fee adjustments, made to appear as if it was a minor increase, and that some fee decreases would mitigate the fact that ebaY has increased their fees every year, despite year over year record breaking profitability. As always, the business community looks at this and says that ebaY is justified in charging whatever the market will bear, but it once again puts the lie to ebaY's propaganda about being community based.
The fee increase went into effect on 22 Feb 06. The way the new fees were structured, ebaY reduced the fee on items listed at 99 cents or less from 25 cents to 20 cents, and increased the final value fee on the most common ending price level, an additional one quarter percent (.25%). They made some features free, including picture show and sales reports plus, and reduced fees for the second and third tiers of picture manager (all pretty worthless features, much less expensive and more reliably found from third party service providers). And though they did not increase the store fees, TAG does expect an increase in store fees, probably in the May/June time frame.
What ebaY failed to mention, was that there was a fee increase they did not tell their sellers about. TAG wonders if this fee increase, which probably borders on the illegal, was even too sleazy for ebaY to mention in public, or if ebaY felt they could slip it in without anyone noticing. Once word got out and they were questioned about it, they would have probably used their old, "it has always been that way, we just didn't enforce it" line, a complete lie that seller's have the invoices to prove. Fortunately an erudite TAG subscriber did notice, and let us know about it.
The increase ebaY forget to mention, comes into play when a seller revises a listing to decrease the price of the item in that listing. In the past if the seller decreased the price of a listing, so that it took the listing into a lower fee category, ebaY would refund the difference. Just as, if the seller increased the price of a listing, ebaY would add the extra fee to the seller's bill. Now what ebaY is doing, is not refunding the difference in fees, in the case of a decreased price, but is still adding the increased fee when an item is revised to increase the price. This also probably applies to the reserve fee, when the change to the fee is based on a lowered reserve price. ebaY explicitly mentions, " Reduce the start price of your item. (You will not receive credit for the difference in your insertion fees.)" but does not address other fees, such as listing duration fees, or other items you might revise. See the revise your listing info at -
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/edit_listing.html
For example, if you look at the fee schedule at -
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html
If you start a listing at $59.99, the insertion fee would be $2.40. You then later revise it to $49.99. ebaY will not refund the $1.20 difference, they will keep it. But if you start an item at $49.99, you will be charged $1.20, and then later revise that to $59.99, ebaY will charge you the extra $1.20 to bring the listing fee up to $2.40.
The only place you can see this fee change is on the revise your listing page. But since that page is included in the user agreement by default (as are all ebaY's little back door hidden information), ebaY will claim you agreed to this change by using their site. TAG argues that this is an illegal rule, keeping fees they are not entitled to, but until someone successfully sues them over this issue, or media attention shames them into a change, it will be the ebaY law.
Want more information on the Online Auction and Trading Industry? Go to -
http://www.auctionguild.com
Saturday, January 28, 2006
ebaY = Convicted Thief
ebaY = Convicted Thief
28 Jan 2006
ebaY has been convicted by a court of law for theft. In the polite parlance of white collar business crime, instead of stealing, it is called patent infringement. But theft is when one person knowingly and illegally takes something that does not belong to them, and that is what ebaY did, and for which they have been convicted, guilty as charged.
When Pierre Omyidar first opened AuctionWeb's site on 5 Sep 1995, he allegedly had spent a weekend thinking up the programming code that allowed the auctioning of items on his site. If we give him the benefit of the doubt, we can assume that he failed to do what any inventor of a commercial product should do, and that is check to see if anyone had invented, and patented, the idea first. If Pierre had checked, he would have seen an auction process patent filed in April 1995 by someone named Thomas Woolston, and his company MercExchange. In 1995, it was not as easy as it is today to do such a search, so we give Pierre the benefit of the doubt that he did not know (or care - he was working for General Magic at the time, and probably subject to an invention agreement with them for anything patentable) of the patents existence, but the success of AuctionWeb, which changed to the name ebaY in 1997, would make knowledge of such patents important to the company.
With the growth of ebaY, and the company going public, auction and trading sites started to sprout like mung beans at a vegetarian restaurant. Moves made by ebaY in 1999, adding advertising banners tied to search, interfering with the auction ads already paid for by sellers, along with fee increases, caused seller rebellions and gave birth to a movement called the Million Auction March. This movement moved 2 million listings to Yahoo Auctions, making it a possible contender of note (action on Yahoo's part soon destroyed this advantage). This along with other's wanting to cash in on what appeared to be a goldmine, might have been the impetus for ebaY to get serious about researching the status of patents and see what kind of control they could get on the industry. It was early in 2000 that ebaY contacted Mr Woolston to see if they could buy the several auction and instant buy patents he had invented and registered, some before AuctionWeb/ebaY's launch, and some since.
Negotiations quickly broke down, very unsurprising given ebaY's arrogant attitude, and ebaY dared Mr. Woolston to sue them. Made of stern material, forged in the fire of service in the military and with the CIA, Mr Woolston, an inventor, electrical engineer and patent attorney, did just that. So far Mr Woolston and his company MercExchange, has won against ebaY in federal district court in 2003 for patent numbers 5,845,265 and 6,085,176, the instant buy patent (what ebaY calls buy it now) and a search patent that directly affects Half.Com. The district court would not let Mr Woolston sue for the auction process patent, and would not let him file an injunction against ebaY, shutting down the functions used by ebaY in the violated patents. The case then went to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit (case 03-1600,-1616). This court ruled in 2005 and upheld ebaY's conviction on the instant buy patent, (5,845,265), said Mr Woolston could sue on the auction process patent (6,202,051), and allowed an injunction against ebaY to stop their willful infringement of Mr Woolston's patents,. This conviction is final as only the Supreme Court of the United States could overturn it, but ebaY chose not to seek such a losing appeal. Instead ebaY filed an appeal to the Supreme Court, (docket 05-130) to try to stop the injunction ordered by the US Court of Appeals. The Supreme Court will hear arguments in March of 2006.
In the interim, ebaY has tried to insult, discredit and isolate Mr Woolston. ebaY has successfully demanded that the Patents and Trademark Office (PTO) review all Mr Woolston's patents ( a common acquiescence on the apart of the PTO in such disputes). So far the PTO has confirmed the validity of Mr Woolston's auction process patent (number 6,202,051), but TAG has no confirmation on the status of 5,845,265 or 6,085,176. ebaY has represented Mr Woolston as a liar, denying that ebaY ever negotiated with him for his patents, and claiming that Mr Woolston changed his patents to cover what ebaY was doing after the fact. As recently as the fall of 2005, when Mr Woolston and some other personnel from MercExchange were invited to attend a non-ebaY run conference of online sellers, ebaY President, Bill Cobb, threatened the folks running the conference that if the folks from MercExchange remained at the conference, he and the ebaY team would leave. The sellers running the conference did what they felt they had to, given ebaY's immature spoiled brat that thinks it is god attitude, and asked the MercExchange folks to leave. The MercExchange folks, being grown ups, left the conference without a fuss, leaving conference attendees to shake their heads at ebaY's adolescent behavior.
Information Sources
USPTO Patent Number Search -
http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm
Supreme Court MercEx vs ebaY Docket
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/05-130.htm
US Court of Appeals decision PDF download
http://www.auctionguild.com/03-1600.pdf
Various people at MercExchange
ebaY SEC filings
28 Jan 2006
ebaY has been convicted by a court of law for theft. In the polite parlance of white collar business crime, instead of stealing, it is called patent infringement. But theft is when one person knowingly and illegally takes something that does not belong to them, and that is what ebaY did, and for which they have been convicted, guilty as charged.
When Pierre Omyidar first opened AuctionWeb's site on 5 Sep 1995, he allegedly had spent a weekend thinking up the programming code that allowed the auctioning of items on his site. If we give him the benefit of the doubt, we can assume that he failed to do what any inventor of a commercial product should do, and that is check to see if anyone had invented, and patented, the idea first. If Pierre had checked, he would have seen an auction process patent filed in April 1995 by someone named Thomas Woolston, and his company MercExchange. In 1995, it was not as easy as it is today to do such a search, so we give Pierre the benefit of the doubt that he did not know (or care - he was working for General Magic at the time, and probably subject to an invention agreement with them for anything patentable) of the patents existence, but the success of AuctionWeb, which changed to the name ebaY in 1997, would make knowledge of such patents important to the company.
With the growth of ebaY, and the company going public, auction and trading sites started to sprout like mung beans at a vegetarian restaurant. Moves made by ebaY in 1999, adding advertising banners tied to search, interfering with the auction ads already paid for by sellers, along with fee increases, caused seller rebellions and gave birth to a movement called the Million Auction March. This movement moved 2 million listings to Yahoo Auctions, making it a possible contender of note (action on Yahoo's part soon destroyed this advantage). This along with other's wanting to cash in on what appeared to be a goldmine, might have been the impetus for ebaY to get serious about researching the status of patents and see what kind of control they could get on the industry. It was early in 2000 that ebaY contacted Mr Woolston to see if they could buy the several auction and instant buy patents he had invented and registered, some before AuctionWeb/ebaY's launch, and some since.
Negotiations quickly broke down, very unsurprising given ebaY's arrogant attitude, and ebaY dared Mr. Woolston to sue them. Made of stern material, forged in the fire of service in the military and with the CIA, Mr Woolston, an inventor, electrical engineer and patent attorney, did just that. So far Mr Woolston and his company MercExchange, has won against ebaY in federal district court in 2003 for patent numbers 5,845,265 and 6,085,176, the instant buy patent (what ebaY calls buy it now) and a search patent that directly affects Half.Com. The district court would not let Mr Woolston sue for the auction process patent, and would not let him file an injunction against ebaY, shutting down the functions used by ebaY in the violated patents. The case then went to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit (case 03-1600,-1616). This court ruled in 2005 and upheld ebaY's conviction on the instant buy patent, (5,845,265), said Mr Woolston could sue on the auction process patent (6,202,051), and allowed an injunction against ebaY to stop their willful infringement of Mr Woolston's patents,. This conviction is final as only the Supreme Court of the United States could overturn it, but ebaY chose not to seek such a losing appeal. Instead ebaY filed an appeal to the Supreme Court, (docket 05-130) to try to stop the injunction ordered by the US Court of Appeals. The Supreme Court will hear arguments in March of 2006.
In the interim, ebaY has tried to insult, discredit and isolate Mr Woolston. ebaY has successfully demanded that the Patents and Trademark Office (PTO) review all Mr Woolston's patents ( a common acquiescence on the apart of the PTO in such disputes). So far the PTO has confirmed the validity of Mr Woolston's auction process patent (number 6,202,051), but TAG has no confirmation on the status of 5,845,265 or 6,085,176. ebaY has represented Mr Woolston as a liar, denying that ebaY ever negotiated with him for his patents, and claiming that Mr Woolston changed his patents to cover what ebaY was doing after the fact. As recently as the fall of 2005, when Mr Woolston and some other personnel from MercExchange were invited to attend a non-ebaY run conference of online sellers, ebaY President, Bill Cobb, threatened the folks running the conference that if the folks from MercExchange remained at the conference, he and the ebaY team would leave. The sellers running the conference did what they felt they had to, given ebaY's immature spoiled brat that thinks it is god attitude, and asked the MercExchange folks to leave. The MercExchange folks, being grown ups, left the conference without a fuss, leaving conference attendees to shake their heads at ebaY's adolescent behavior.
Information Sources
USPTO Patent Number Search -
http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm
Supreme Court MercEx vs ebaY Docket
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/05-130.htm
US Court of Appeals decision PDF download
http://www.auctionguild.com/03-1600.pdf
Various people at MercExchange
ebaY SEC filings
Monday, December 12, 2005
ebaY Coupons Good Through 18 Dec 05
Looks as if ebaY has a few more buyer coupon codes out there, for those purchasing something on the ebaY site using PayPal.
Be sure to check the box "I will enter coupon code" just after you click Pay Now but before you sign in to your PP account, or the coupon won't work.
Coupon Code - C11-GIFTGUIDE
10% off next ebay purchase up to $25.00
Coupon Code - C22-GIFTGUIDE
$5 OFF your next purchase of $50 or more
Coupon Code - C23-GIFTGUIDE
$15 OFF your next purchase of $100 or more.
These are valid until 18 Dec 05. The discount does NOT apply to shipping and handling or taxes, only
to the price of the item.
Be sure to check the box "I will enter coupon code" just after you click Pay Now but before you sign in to your PP account, or the coupon won't work.
Coupon Code - C11-GIFTGUIDE
10% off next ebay purchase up to $25.00
Coupon Code - C22-GIFTGUIDE
$5 OFF your next purchase of $50 or more
Coupon Code - C23-GIFTGUIDE
$15 OFF your next purchase of $100 or more.
These are valid until 18 Dec 05. The discount does NOT apply to shipping and handling or taxes, only
to the price of the item.
Tuesday, September 20, 2005
ebaY $25.00 Coupon Good Through 28 Sep 05
From the last Special Edition of TAGnotes
************************************************************
EBAY US 10 PERCENT OFF BUYER PROMOTION
************************************************************
Starting Sunday 18 Sep 2005 at 00:00:01 PT (12:00 AM plus one second on
Sunday 18 Sep 2005) and ending at 00:00:00 PT(12:00 AM) on Wednesday 28
Sep 2005, ebaY will give any buyer of any ONE item selling on ebaY US
(www.ebay.com), 10% off with a maximum discount of $25. on any ONE item
bought from a seller using PayPal.
The 10% discount does NOT apply to shipping and handling or taxes, only
to the price of the item.
Coupon Code is: CELEBRATE
http://pages.ebay.com/celebrate/
http://www.ebay.com/?ssPageName=MOPS5:Celebrate:ebay
If the item you've bought or won says PayPal is accepted in the item
description, but you do not see a PayPal option in checkout, you can go
directly to PayPal to pay for the item. If you have further questions
about how to pay for such an item, contact the seller.
If the item you've bought or own does not accept PayPal, please note
that you are still obligated to pay the seller for the item even though
you cannot use your ebaY coupon or gift certificate. You should always
check first to make sure a seller accepts PayPal if you are planning to
use an ebaY coupon or gift certificate.
More info on using coupons at -
http://pages.ebay.com/coupons/?ssPageName=MOPS5:Celebrate:Coupons
************************************************************
EBAY US 10 PERCENT OFF BUYER PROMOTION
************************************************************
Starting Sunday 18 Sep 2005 at 00:00:01 PT (12:00 AM plus one second on
Sunday 18 Sep 2005) and ending at 00:00:00 PT(12:00 AM) on Wednesday 28
Sep 2005, ebaY will give any buyer of any ONE item selling on ebaY US
(www.ebay.com), 10% off with a maximum discount of $25. on any ONE item
bought from a seller using PayPal.
The 10% discount does NOT apply to shipping and handling or taxes, only
to the price of the item.
Coupon Code is: CELEBRATE
http://pages.ebay.com/celebrate/
http://www.ebay.com/?ssPageName=MOPS5:Celebrate:ebay
If the item you've bought or won says PayPal is accepted in the item
description, but you do not see a PayPal option in checkout, you can go
directly to PayPal to pay for the item. If you have further questions
about how to pay for such an item, contact the seller.
If the item you've bought or own does not accept PayPal, please note
that you are still obligated to pay the seller for the item even though
you cannot use your ebaY coupon or gift certificate. You should always
check first to make sure a seller accepts PayPal if you are planning to
use an ebaY coupon or gift certificate.
More info on using coupons at -
http://pages.ebay.com/coupons/?ssPageName=MOPS5:Celebrate:Coupons
Wednesday, August 31, 2005
TAGnotes Pink Quote of the Day II
Pink Quote of the Day II- Courteous and Respectful Posting is Expected of All Participants posted by claire@ebay.com on 11 Jul 05 at 17:36 PT
" Hello everyone,
We've been hearing from folks who use the boards that the expectation of "courteous and respectful posting from all participants" needs more attention. We've been troubled for some time that this essential element seems to fall by the wayside too often.
We should all be able to have a discussion without attack. Debate can be conducted without insult. Frustration can be expressed without personalization. Interpersonal issues need to be worked out privately between the people involved, not on the boards. And feuds have no place on eBay.
All of us who use the boards - members, staff, newcomers, and regulars - need to know we can come to a board - any board - and find welcome. We don't necessarily expect to always find agreement or comfort, but, as Louise used to say "there's always time for courtesy", and everyone - everyone - deserves that.
As you know, you are the first line of moderation of the forums. You use the Report Link to alert the moderation team to possible violations, so that posts can be reviewed. From time to time, trends begin in these violations, and we step up our action in accordance with your reports.
Posts that are not "courteous and respectful" will be removed when reported, and further action taken as appropriate.
This is nothing new - that expectation has been in place for many years. We had truly hoped the Community could work this part out without need for our intervention. But you've let us know the "expectation" alone is not enough for this time, and thus, we'll be backing it up with firmer enforcement. So, we'll be raising the bar and setting a higher expectation for polite behavior in reviewing the posts you report.
In addition, we'd like to remind everyone that eBay may remove any post or thread at any time, without notice. Sometimes a thread which starts out as a great discussion of differing viewpoints may fall into a battle between a few people, or may go so far off topic that the original purpose is lost. In these cases, threads which have become the focus of interpersonal disputes, or which have been taken far off topic, may be removed entirely, without warning, notice or explanation. ....Claire"
TAG finds this diatribe an intresting piece of hypocrisy. To start with, ebaY has chosen to use a fascist style snitch system to police their boards, rather than a more democratic community based consensus type model. A system of this type does little to create unity and trust between participants and instead breeds contempt, paranoia and dissention. This is an atmosphere that ebaY has put in place to control and manipulate what they call, the community. Additionally, ebaY's employees have a hands off policy on certain users who are colluders, favored members who have been taken into the ebaY fold (often through the Voices program, though some are probably just ebaY employees using aliased IDs, an ebaY practice that goes back to Jim Griffiths, ebaY's first customer service employee) and allowed liberties and impunity even when they are in direct violation of ebaY's rules, other users are not granted. ebaY uses these people to break up serious discussions about ebaY problems and divert these discussions, provoking those participating in the discussions with personal attacks, and totally derailing the conversation. They also use these colluders as snitches and provocateurs, to harass users ebaY wants to silence and ban from their boards. To prevent furor over a popular dissenting voice being silenced, ebaY uses the excuse of the expectations in Claire's PQOD above, to ban those dissenting vocal posters, even though ebaY used their colluders to create the hostile situation. Needless to say the ebaY colluder does not get banned, only the intended victim. A recent case exemplifies this, where ebaY was publicly embarrassed during the CNBC broadcast of The ebaY Effect, when a post on an ebaY chat board, showing a monkey and the motto "ebaY sucks" was shown on national television. ebaY has since permanently banned from their boards the person who made and posted the graphic, though he violated no ebaY posting rules.
Many of you reading this might say that they are ebaY's boards, they have no legal obligation under the US Constitution to allow free speech, and they can run their boards however they please. This is absolutely true, but it makes Meg Whitman and Bill Cobb a liar, every time they open their mouths and talk about community, a level playing field and the ebaY Community Values. Where censorship and snitching rule the day, there is only manipulation, deceit and ulterior motives, none of which fit the rhetoric those at ebaY spout, and which amounts to little more than lies and hypocrisy.
" Hello everyone,
We've been hearing from folks who use the boards that the expectation of "courteous and respectful posting from all participants" needs more attention. We've been troubled for some time that this essential element seems to fall by the wayside too often.
We should all be able to have a discussion without attack. Debate can be conducted without insult. Frustration can be expressed without personalization. Interpersonal issues need to be worked out privately between the people involved, not on the boards. And feuds have no place on eBay.
All of us who use the boards - members, staff, newcomers, and regulars - need to know we can come to a board - any board - and find welcome. We don't necessarily expect to always find agreement or comfort, but, as Louise used to say "there's always time for courtesy", and everyone - everyone - deserves that.
As you know, you are the first line of moderation of the forums. You use the Report Link to alert the moderation team to possible violations, so that posts can be reviewed. From time to time, trends begin in these violations, and we step up our action in accordance with your reports.
Posts that are not "courteous and respectful" will be removed when reported, and further action taken as appropriate.
This is nothing new - that expectation has been in place for many years. We had truly hoped the Community could work this part out without need for our intervention. But you've let us know the "expectation" alone is not enough for this time, and thus, we'll be backing it up with firmer enforcement. So, we'll be raising the bar and setting a higher expectation for polite behavior in reviewing the posts you report.
In addition, we'd like to remind everyone that eBay may remove any post or thread at any time, without notice. Sometimes a thread which starts out as a great discussion of differing viewpoints may fall into a battle between a few people, or may go so far off topic that the original purpose is lost. In these cases, threads which have become the focus of interpersonal disputes, or which have been taken far off topic, may be removed entirely, without warning, notice or explanation. ....Claire"
TAG finds this diatribe an intresting piece of hypocrisy. To start with, ebaY has chosen to use a fascist style snitch system to police their boards, rather than a more democratic community based consensus type model. A system of this type does little to create unity and trust between participants and instead breeds contempt, paranoia and dissention. This is an atmosphere that ebaY has put in place to control and manipulate what they call, the community. Additionally, ebaY's employees have a hands off policy on certain users who are colluders, favored members who have been taken into the ebaY fold (often through the Voices program, though some are probably just ebaY employees using aliased IDs, an ebaY practice that goes back to Jim Griffiths, ebaY's first customer service employee) and allowed liberties and impunity even when they are in direct violation of ebaY's rules, other users are not granted. ebaY uses these people to break up serious discussions about ebaY problems and divert these discussions, provoking those participating in the discussions with personal attacks, and totally derailing the conversation. They also use these colluders as snitches and provocateurs, to harass users ebaY wants to silence and ban from their boards. To prevent furor over a popular dissenting voice being silenced, ebaY uses the excuse of the expectations in Claire's PQOD above, to ban those dissenting vocal posters, even though ebaY used their colluders to create the hostile situation. Needless to say the ebaY colluder does not get banned, only the intended victim. A recent case exemplifies this, where ebaY was publicly embarrassed during the CNBC broadcast of The ebaY Effect, when a post on an ebaY chat board, showing a monkey and the motto "ebaY sucks" was shown on national television. ebaY has since permanently banned from their boards the person who made and posted the graphic, though he violated no ebaY posting rules.
Many of you reading this might say that they are ebaY's boards, they have no legal obligation under the US Constitution to allow free speech, and they can run their boards however they please. This is absolutely true, but it makes Meg Whitman and Bill Cobb a liar, every time they open their mouths and talk about community, a level playing field and the ebaY Community Values. Where censorship and snitching rule the day, there is only manipulation, deceit and ulterior motives, none of which fit the rhetoric those at ebaY spout, and which amounts to little more than lies and hypocrisy.
Monday, August 29, 2005
Free Listing Day on ebaY?
************************************************************
TAG PREDICTIONS FOR UPCOMING EBAY PROMOTIONS
************************************************************
On 5 September 2005 ebaY will celebrate it’s 10 anniversary for its US site (and incidentally it is the 6th anniversary of TAGnotes). TAG predicts ebaY will conduct several promotions during the month of September with a free or 10 cent listing day, starting as early as the end of August. We think ebaY will do a promotion of some sort or another, every week of September.
TAG PREDICTIONS FOR UPCOMING EBAY PROMOTIONS
************************************************************
On 5 September 2005 ebaY will celebrate it’s 10 anniversary for its US site (and incidentally it is the 6th anniversary of TAGnotes). TAG predicts ebaY will conduct several promotions during the month of September with a free or 10 cent listing day, starting as early as the end of August. We think ebaY will do a promotion of some sort or another, every week of September.
Sunday, February 13, 2005
TAGnotes Special Edition ebaY US&CA 5 cent promo on 14Feb05
Excerpted from -
The Auction Guild Notes Special Edition ebaY US & CA
5 cent promo 13 Feb 04
************************************************************
THIS ISSUE -
************************************************************
EBAY US 5 CENT LISTING DAY 14 FEB 2005
************************************************************
EBAY CA 5 CENT LISTING DAY 14 FEB 2005
************************************************************
OVERSTOCK REDUCED FEE PROMOTION AND $10 CREDIT
************************************************************
WorldManna.Org working to help hungry people. You can help
influence corporations to donate a percentage of their profits to
alleviate and prevent world hunger.
Sign the pledge and use your purchasing power.
http://www.worldmanna.org/common/js/jspscripts/consumers.jsp
************************************************************
For professional, affordable web site design, development,
& low cost web hosting: http://www.tjbailey.com/
************************************************************
In search for auction management tools? Go to
http://www.auctionguild.com/generic.html?pid=0
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Looking for reliable image hosting? Check TAG's image hosting
directory at - http://www.auctionguild.com/generic80.html
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
This issue brought to you by the preceding ads, supporting TAG
through their advertising dollars. Please support them, by
clicking on or copy/pasting their links and buying their products.
TAG's advertising rates are at -
http://www.auctionguild.com/generic99.html
TAG does not endorse the companies or products advertised
9200 subscribers
************************************************************
EBAY US 5 CENT LISTING DAY 14 FEB 2005
************************************************************
ebaY US is holding a one day 5 cent listing fee cap promotion on Mon
14 Feb 05 from 00:00:01 PT (12:00 AM plus one second on Mon
14 Feb 05) until 23:59:59 PT(11:59 PM plus 59 seconds Mon
14 Feb 05).
ebaY will charge 5 cents for the insertion fees for auction style and
fixed price listings on ebaY US and ebaY Motors (non-vehicle
listings only). This includes listings created prior to the
promotion and scheduled to start during the promotional period
on 14 Feb 05. Listings must start during the promotional period
to qualify for the discount.
ebaY will charge all optional listing upgrade fees: bold, border, buy
it now, featured plus, highlight, gallery, gallery featured, gift
services, home page featured, listing designer, picture services,
picture show, reserve listing fee , subtitle, supersize picture
and extended duration surcharges.
Excluded from the promotion are, ebaY Motors vehicles, international,
live auction, professional services, real estate, ad format and
store inventory listings.
http://pages.ebay.com/promo/promo13579/
(This info was not posted to the US announcement board when
this mailing was sent, check the ebaY US announcement board
to confirm)
This appears to be an effort on ebaY’s part to break the Boycott
scheduled to start on 18 Feb 05 before it gets going.
************************************************************
EBAY CA 5 CENT LISTING DAY 14 FEB 2005
************************************************************
ebaY Canada is holding a one day C 5 cent listing fee cap promotion
on Mon 14 Feb 05 from 00:00:01 EST (12:00 AM plus one second on
Mon 14 Feb 05) and runs through 23:59:59 EST (11:59 PM plus 59
seconds Mon 14 Feb 05).
Rules and restriction will apply as per those in the US, as posted
above. http://pages.ebay.ca/promo/promo13579/
(This info was not posted to the CA announcement board when
this mailing was sent, check the ebaY CA announcement board
to confirm)
************************************************************
OVERSTOCK REDUCED FEE PROMOTION AND $10 CREDIT
************************************************************
Overstock.com Auctions will cut its listing fees by 52 percent from
18 Feb through 18 Mar, to appeal to sellers affected by ebaY’s
fee increase.
Each person who visits or registers with Overstock.com Auctions on 18
Feb will receive a $10 credit toward their future listing fees.
Overstock will put a link on the home page allowing users to claim
the credit by logging into an existing account or registering
as a new user.
http://auctions.overstock.com
************************************************************
IOFFER.COM
************************************************************
This is a site TAG has written about many times in the past. We
mention it here because we have had more email from our
subscribers asking us to mention this site as an alternative,
than all the other email put together that we have received
about other sites.
This is not an auction site, but a fixed price/best offer type of
negotiation site with approx 377,000 listing and an extensive
wanted item section. This site has a good search engine.
It also has a feedback and auction import tool called Mr Grabber to
import your listings from sites such as ebaY with little difficulty.
There is no completed item information so no way to determine
sell through rate, and sellers have not talked about this, so TAG
has no indication of what the sell through rate might be. Listing
is free, stores are free, and the final value fees are reasonable -
http://www.ioffer.com/help/feesNCreditPolicy.jsp?showTopBottom=false
Customer service is believed to be responsive, and has the site has
good community boards. It also is searched by Froogle, so listings
appear on Froogle and Google.
http://www.ioffer.com
The Auction Guild Notes Special Edition ebaY US & CA
5 cent promo 13 Feb 04
************************************************************
THIS ISSUE -
************************************************************
EBAY US 5 CENT LISTING DAY 14 FEB 2005
************************************************************
EBAY CA 5 CENT LISTING DAY 14 FEB 2005
************************************************************
OVERSTOCK REDUCED FEE PROMOTION AND $10 CREDIT
************************************************************
WorldManna.Org working to help hungry people. You can help
influence corporations to donate a percentage of their profits to
alleviate and prevent world hunger.
Sign the pledge and use your purchasing power.
http://www.worldmanna.org/common/js/jspscripts/consumers.jsp
************************************************************
For professional, affordable web site design, development,
& low cost web hosting: http://www.tjbailey.com/
************************************************************
In search for auction management tools? Go to
http://www.auctionguild.com/generic.html?pid=0
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Looking for reliable image hosting? Check TAG's image hosting
directory at - http://www.auctionguild.com/generic80.html
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
This issue brought to you by the preceding ads, supporting TAG
through their advertising dollars. Please support them, by
clicking on or copy/pasting their links and buying their products.
TAG's advertising rates are at -
http://www.auctionguild.com/generic99.html
TAG does not endorse the companies or products advertised
9200 subscribers
************************************************************
EBAY US 5 CENT LISTING DAY 14 FEB 2005
************************************************************
ebaY US is holding a one day 5 cent listing fee cap promotion on Mon
14 Feb 05 from 00:00:01 PT (12:00 AM plus one second on Mon
14 Feb 05) until 23:59:59 PT(11:59 PM plus 59 seconds Mon
14 Feb 05).
ebaY will charge 5 cents for the insertion fees for auction style and
fixed price listings on ebaY US and ebaY Motors (non-vehicle
listings only). This includes listings created prior to the
promotion and scheduled to start during the promotional period
on 14 Feb 05. Listings must start during the promotional period
to qualify for the discount.
ebaY will charge all optional listing upgrade fees: bold, border, buy
it now, featured plus, highlight, gallery, gallery featured, gift
services, home page featured, listing designer, picture services,
picture show, reserve listing fee , subtitle, supersize picture
and extended duration surcharges.
Excluded from the promotion are, ebaY Motors vehicles, international,
live auction, professional services, real estate, ad format and
store inventory listings.
http://pages.ebay.com/promo/promo13579/
(This info was not posted to the US announcement board when
this mailing was sent, check the ebaY US announcement board
to confirm)
This appears to be an effort on ebaY’s part to break the Boycott
scheduled to start on 18 Feb 05 before it gets going.
************************************************************
EBAY CA 5 CENT LISTING DAY 14 FEB 2005
************************************************************
ebaY Canada is holding a one day C 5 cent listing fee cap promotion
on Mon 14 Feb 05 from 00:00:01 EST (12:00 AM plus one second on
Mon 14 Feb 05) and runs through 23:59:59 EST (11:59 PM plus 59
seconds Mon 14 Feb 05).
Rules and restriction will apply as per those in the US, as posted
above. http://pages.ebay.ca/promo/promo13579/
(This info was not posted to the CA announcement board when
this mailing was sent, check the ebaY CA announcement board
to confirm)
************************************************************
OVERSTOCK REDUCED FEE PROMOTION AND $10 CREDIT
************************************************************
Overstock.com Auctions will cut its listing fees by 52 percent from
18 Feb through 18 Mar, to appeal to sellers affected by ebaY’s
fee increase.
Each person who visits or registers with Overstock.com Auctions on 18
Feb will receive a $10 credit toward their future listing fees.
Overstock will put a link on the home page allowing users to claim
the credit by logging into an existing account or registering
as a new user.
http://auctions.overstock.com
************************************************************
IOFFER.COM
************************************************************
This is a site TAG has written about many times in the past. We
mention it here because we have had more email from our
subscribers asking us to mention this site as an alternative,
than all the other email put together that we have received
about other sites.
This is not an auction site, but a fixed price/best offer type of
negotiation site with approx 377,000 listing and an extensive
wanted item section. This site has a good search engine.
It also has a feedback and auction import tool called Mr Grabber to
import your listings from sites such as ebaY with little difficulty.
There is no completed item information so no way to determine
sell through rate, and sellers have not talked about this, so TAG
has no indication of what the sell through rate might be. Listing
is free, stores are free, and the final value fees are reasonable -
http://www.ioffer.com/help/feesNCreditPolicy.jsp?showTopBottom=false
Customer service is believed to be responsive, and has the site has
good community boards. It also is searched by Froogle, so listings
appear on Froogle and Google.
http://www.ioffer.com
Saturday, February 12, 2005
The ebaY Boycott and Other More Direct Acts of Aggression
Ethical Consumerism Meets Economic Civil Disobedience
Since ebaY announced the fee increase that goes into effect 18 Feb 05, TAG has observed an ongoing outpouring of anger and frustration against ebaY. This was further fueled by ebaY North American President Bill Cobb posting on the Marketing Announcement Board, and sending an email to ebaY users, trying to calm the furor, and tossing a few crumbs to the multitude, while he (figuratively) feasted on cake. (Cake being that he cashed out approx 9.5 Million in ebaY stock in 2003 and 22.5 Million in 2004 and as of Oct 04 owned 17,000 more shares he received from ebaY, not counting stock options which he tends to execute and immediately sell)
ebaY’s stance is that the users would not be making such a fuss if they really understood the price increase. Sellers don’t appreciate ebaY assuming that sellers are too stupid to understand what a fee increase is or what it entails. ebaY also appears to be shrugging off the furor, as shown by a recent quote by CEO Meg Whitman, “This is not the most upset the community has been,'' Whitman said. “They have a lot of issues they'd like us to change, and Bill has done a good job of reopening the dialogue. So, we'll see. But this isn't the first time they've been this mad.” And from Bill Cobb, “It's not the loudest [outcry]. But it was loud. Some of it is fair. I'm not going to comment [on the planned strike].” In fact implying, the sellers have been mad in the past and done nothing about it, they are not going to do anything now either.
From all that TAG has observed, read on the online auction and trading industry (OAI/OTI) boards, and hears from subscribers, the price increase comes on top of endless problems, months of double billing, sellers closed down by “mistake”, items not indexing, slow page loads, ebaY sponsored mediaplex double click and ebaY toolbar spyware infecting computers, and other problems ad infinitum. The site does not work and ebaY wants to increase fees, despite their record breaking profits every quarter the company has been in business. ebaY claims their users are part of the great ebaY community, but the only ones who get rich and fat are ebaY insiders, and sellers say they are going to act.
So what are ebaY users saying they are planning on doing to show ebaY they are serious about their objection to this latest slap in the face, on top of all the other breaks, bangs and bruises dealt out by ebaY? To start, they have a petition objecting to the increase at - http://www.petitiononline.com/ebayfee/
ebaY sellers say they have closed stores, and there are currently 124850 stores on ebaY, down from 132,050 on 12 Jan. More sellers say they will close their store once the old fees are replaced by new ones, which can be up to 180 days after 18 Feb, if the seller lists all their inventory prior to 18 Feb (though the higher monthly rent will be in effect).
They are also calling for a Boycott of ebaY from 18 to 25 Feb 2005 - http://www.nolistingday.com/
In the past, Boycotts have been less than useless, but with ebaY investors on edge, and the press panting for any movement they think they can pounce on, a good showing might gain some real attention and possibly even help move ebaY stock to the downside, something to which ebaY WILL react. Sellers have also put up several protest auctions on the site, some of which ebaY has ended. In the past, users have also suggested more aggressive acts, such as flooding ebaY with complaint emails, though with autoresponders, this has no real effect. This time around a few even more active and pugnacious ideas are floating around on the OAI/OTI chat boards.
There is an idea that sellers put information in their current auctions that would normally cause ebaY to close down the auction, with the hope that ebaY will have to end a few hundred thousand, or even millions of listings. Suggestions for information to add are links to the sellers website, links to other auction and trading sites, messages telling buyers where else the seller has merchandise listed, information about the Boycott, and information about the fee increase and how it will cost the buyer more as a result. Unless a significant number of sellers do this, ebaY will target the sellers that do, and punish them.
Another idea is to have everyone add their phone number to the feedback they leave. This is also something ebaY does not allow users to do.
One other idea was actually suggested by coments made by Bill Cobb, when he talked about all the ebaY sponsor link advertising ebaY does on search sites such as Google and Yahoo. Mr Cobb said that ebaY is the largest consumer of such advertising, and Mr Dutta (the ebaY CFO) said that 33% of ebaY ad money goes into this type of advertising. The idea is that in an aggressive movement of protest, hit ebaY in their pocket book. Go to Google or Yahoo search engine, search for a term such as ebaY, auction, or any item, and click on ebaY’s paid sponsor links at the top or side of the page. Every time someone clicks, it costs ebaY money. If thousands and thousands of links are clicked again and again, it will use up ebaY’s advertising budget and remove their ads from these search engines until the funds are replenished. An act of aggressive economic civil disobedience, but one that has the advantage of an inability on ebaY’s part to target perpetrators. There would be no way to distinguish a legitimate click from a civil disobedience click, and if, let’s say, all 26,000 of the folks that signed the petition clicked on 1000 links each over the course of the Boycott week, it would be a very significant action for little effort.
The action that we condone and that TAG still holds is the most effective and permanent action sellers can take, is for seller to take back control of the OAI/OTI. To move listings in 3 million item chunks to other sites, build their own websites to act as a hub for all the seller’s marketing, and merely USE ebaY as one tool to build a seller’s customer base, rather than letting ebaY use the seller as a cow that ebaY milks until it is dry and then sends to slaughter. This is really the action ebaY fears most.
Quotes -
http://snipurl.com/cqlt
http://snipurl.com/cqlu
Info on insider trades -
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/06/4535.html
13 Feb - After writing this, we heard from some TAGnotes subscribers who suggested the following -
Contact all the Businesses who buy banner advertising on ebaY, and tell them you will no longer buy their products because they are supporting (quote from the email) "a greedy, lying, outfit" and if the business continues to advertise on ebaY, "then they are no better than the corp they are advertising with". Follow through and let your friends and associates know so they will do the same.
Close your ebaY account - as another subscriber put it, "After being a registered eBay user and auction assistant since December of 1998, I have closed my ebay account. I have paid the increases often enough!" This is the ultimate act of ethical consumerism.
Since ebaY announced the fee increase that goes into effect 18 Feb 05, TAG has observed an ongoing outpouring of anger and frustration against ebaY. This was further fueled by ebaY North American President Bill Cobb posting on the Marketing Announcement Board, and sending an email to ebaY users, trying to calm the furor, and tossing a few crumbs to the multitude, while he (figuratively) feasted on cake. (Cake being that he cashed out approx 9.5 Million in ebaY stock in 2003 and 22.5 Million in 2004 and as of Oct 04 owned 17,000 more shares he received from ebaY, not counting stock options which he tends to execute and immediately sell)
ebaY’s stance is that the users would not be making such a fuss if they really understood the price increase. Sellers don’t appreciate ebaY assuming that sellers are too stupid to understand what a fee increase is or what it entails. ebaY also appears to be shrugging off the furor, as shown by a recent quote by CEO Meg Whitman, “This is not the most upset the community has been,'' Whitman said. “They have a lot of issues they'd like us to change, and Bill has done a good job of reopening the dialogue. So, we'll see. But this isn't the first time they've been this mad.” And from Bill Cobb, “It's not the loudest [outcry]. But it was loud. Some of it is fair. I'm not going to comment [on the planned strike].” In fact implying, the sellers have been mad in the past and done nothing about it, they are not going to do anything now either.
From all that TAG has observed, read on the online auction and trading industry (OAI/OTI) boards, and hears from subscribers, the price increase comes on top of endless problems, months of double billing, sellers closed down by “mistake”, items not indexing, slow page loads, ebaY sponsored mediaplex double click and ebaY toolbar spyware infecting computers, and other problems ad infinitum. The site does not work and ebaY wants to increase fees, despite their record breaking profits every quarter the company has been in business. ebaY claims their users are part of the great ebaY community, but the only ones who get rich and fat are ebaY insiders, and sellers say they are going to act.
So what are ebaY users saying they are planning on doing to show ebaY they are serious about their objection to this latest slap in the face, on top of all the other breaks, bangs and bruises dealt out by ebaY? To start, they have a petition objecting to the increase at - http://www.petitiononline.com/ebayfee/
ebaY sellers say they have closed stores, and there are currently 124850 stores on ebaY, down from 132,050 on 12 Jan. More sellers say they will close their store once the old fees are replaced by new ones, which can be up to 180 days after 18 Feb, if the seller lists all their inventory prior to 18 Feb (though the higher monthly rent will be in effect).
They are also calling for a Boycott of ebaY from 18 to 25 Feb 2005 - http://www.nolistingday.com/
In the past, Boycotts have been less than useless, but with ebaY investors on edge, and the press panting for any movement they think they can pounce on, a good showing might gain some real attention and possibly even help move ebaY stock to the downside, something to which ebaY WILL react. Sellers have also put up several protest auctions on the site, some of which ebaY has ended. In the past, users have also suggested more aggressive acts, such as flooding ebaY with complaint emails, though with autoresponders, this has no real effect. This time around a few even more active and pugnacious ideas are floating around on the OAI/OTI chat boards.
There is an idea that sellers put information in their current auctions that would normally cause ebaY to close down the auction, with the hope that ebaY will have to end a few hundred thousand, or even millions of listings. Suggestions for information to add are links to the sellers website, links to other auction and trading sites, messages telling buyers where else the seller has merchandise listed, information about the Boycott, and information about the fee increase and how it will cost the buyer more as a result. Unless a significant number of sellers do this, ebaY will target the sellers that do, and punish them.
Another idea is to have everyone add their phone number to the feedback they leave. This is also something ebaY does not allow users to do.
One other idea was actually suggested by coments made by Bill Cobb, when he talked about all the ebaY sponsor link advertising ebaY does on search sites such as Google and Yahoo. Mr Cobb said that ebaY is the largest consumer of such advertising, and Mr Dutta (the ebaY CFO) said that 33% of ebaY ad money goes into this type of advertising. The idea is that in an aggressive movement of protest, hit ebaY in their pocket book. Go to Google or Yahoo search engine, search for a term such as ebaY, auction, or any item, and click on ebaY’s paid sponsor links at the top or side of the page. Every time someone clicks, it costs ebaY money. If thousands and thousands of links are clicked again and again, it will use up ebaY’s advertising budget and remove their ads from these search engines until the funds are replenished. An act of aggressive economic civil disobedience, but one that has the advantage of an inability on ebaY’s part to target perpetrators. There would be no way to distinguish a legitimate click from a civil disobedience click, and if, let’s say, all 26,000 of the folks that signed the petition clicked on 1000 links each over the course of the Boycott week, it would be a very significant action for little effort.
The action that we condone and that TAG still holds is the most effective and permanent action sellers can take, is for seller to take back control of the OAI/OTI. To move listings in 3 million item chunks to other sites, build their own websites to act as a hub for all the seller’s marketing, and merely USE ebaY as one tool to build a seller’s customer base, rather than letting ebaY use the seller as a cow that ebaY milks until it is dry and then sends to slaughter. This is really the action ebaY fears most.
Quotes -
http://snipurl.com/cqlt
http://snipurl.com/cqlu
Info on insider trades -
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/06/4535.html
13 Feb - After writing this, we heard from some TAGnotes subscribers who suggested the following -
Contact all the Businesses who buy banner advertising on ebaY, and tell them you will no longer buy their products because they are supporting (quote from the email) "a greedy, lying, outfit" and if the business continues to advertise on ebaY, "then they are no better than the corp they are advertising with". Follow through and let your friends and associates know so they will do the same.
Close your ebaY account - as another subscriber put it, "After being a registered eBay user and auction assistant since December of 1998, I have closed my ebay account. I have paid the increases often enough!" This is the ultimate act of ethical consumerism.
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